The most racist retcon in all of Marvel Comics history.

[Panic]

Tony Stark was based on Howard Hughes, both in looks and personality, according to Stan Lee. And the Stark name tends to come from the British Isles. I don't think anyone can claim Tony Stark was always supposed to be a POC with any credibility. I totally get why people don't like the recon, though.

[Celtic1967]

Marvel should have done what DC did with Jon Stewart and made Sam a veteran. Jon Stewart in the main DC canon was a made a vet in the main DC canon after the Justice League cartoon introduced the retcon. Marvel should've done the same thing and borrowed the veteran aspect from MCU Falcon, made Sam a veteran-turn-social worker. Just my $0.02.

[Will Evans]

I pictured Tony as half-Italian American on his mother Maria’s side.

Howard over the years became more of the expy “Howard Hughes” type that Tony was originally based on.

I asked Mr Busiek in the “Ask Kurt Busiek” thread, and he said when he wrote the book, he pictured Maria as Italian or Italian-American. But that different writers have changed things since.

[Blind Wedjat]

This whole thing reminds me of when folks said Marvel was racist for hiring a white man to play Dr. Strange in the movies, when he was always white. I never understood where that "Stephen is Middle Eastern" nonsense came from.

Same thing happened with Iron Fist (even though that show just handled everything so poorly), and people randomly thinking Kate Bishop was Asian when Hailee Steinfeld was in the running to play the character. The latter sounds explicitly racist to me because almost none of these weird fans saying this stuff could say which country in Asian she was from. So they look at Asia as a monolith.

Plus, Steinfeld is part Filipino.

[Mike_Murdock]

It's all been pointed out earlier, but:

a) Bendis didn't retcon Tony being adopted, it was Gillian
b) There really isn't much evidence that Tony's mom is anything other than of white European ancestry
c) I'm not aware of anything saying Howard Stark is Jewish.
d) Like many others, I assumed this would be about Snap Wilson.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Yes, the Snap Wilson retcon was horrible. Period, point blank. But...

Devil's advocate: The retcon was concocted at a time when the glorification of pimps, gangsters, thugs and other social miscreants in predominantly minority communities was becoming vogue. Whether we're talking fictional characters like Superfly, or real life individuals like Iceberg Slim, Nicky Barnes and Bumpy Johnson, we can't deny their impact on both the community and pop culture. Hell, even Malcolm "Detroit Red" Little started off as a two-bit hustler and pimp before he found Allah and his divine calling as Malcolm X.

This trend would arc well into the modern era with the emergence of gangsters and drug dealers who later became well-known rappers, or strippers who pushed through the muck to become some of the biggest celebrities in the world. We have exalted them to these heights. You can't get too upset with Marvel writers for mistaking these characters as the type that most Americans, black and otherwise, see as paradigmatic. To this day there are people out there still basing their come-up off of questionable means that garner them "street cred." As perverse as it may be, through that transmogrification of values they achieve respect, love and acceptance within the community, but more importantly, outside of it.

It's possible that's all the Snap Wilson persona was intended to be: an attempt to make Sam complex and controversial, so as to appeal to readers during the height of the Blaxploitation era. They didn't want Sam to be perceived as a "cornball brother," so they gambled on making Sam less like "They Call Me Mr. Tibbs" and more like "Black Caesar" or "The Mack" ... and failed mightily in the attempt.

Yes, they were wrong for even trying. It's too bad Marvel didn't have someone like James Baldwin as a resource back then. I'm sure Mr. Baldwin would have set them straight and advised against it. Hell, any black man in a leadership position on their staff would have steered them clear of the Snap Wilson nonsense.

I did not know that. I always just presumed it was done to make him more 'street', like every other black character at the time.

[Ravin' Ray]

But, as is typical of men, when a woman complains about something, her arguments are deconstructed and labeled as a result of ignorance about what she is talking about.

You might want to ask the other women who post here, like Iron Maiden, if their arguments get deconstructed in typical fashion by men, such as when she complains about Doom getting badly written.

She is Latina. Carbonell is a name of Spanish origin.

Carbonell and other Spanish names are common among other former colonies too like the Philippines; one of my college friends is surnamed Carbonell. If an Asian-American has a Spanish name, chances are he/she is Filipino.

[Alan2099]

But, as is typical of men, when a woman complains about something, her arguments are deconstructed and labeled as a result of ignorance about what she is talking about.

You're on a comic forum. It doesn't matter what gender you are, your arguments are going to be deconstructed and labeled ignorant. If you want special treatment for being a woman, you're in the wrong place.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Have we seen enough of Mrs. Stark to determine her ethnic background? Before the movies, the Starks were basically non characters

[U.N. Owen]

She is Latina. Carbonell is a name of Spanish origin.

One, Carbonell is Catalan in origin, which is not Spanish.

Two, white latinos exist. There was this whole españoles, indios, and mestizos classification system dedicated to skin color and so-called blood purity. End of discussion.

[Will Evans]

She was Italian-American.

[U.N. Owen]

Same thing happened with Iron Fist (even though that show just handled everything so poorly), and people randomly thinking Kate Bishop was Asian when Hailee Steinfeld was in the running to play the character. The latter sounds explicitly racist to me because almost none of these weird fans saying this stuff could say which country in Asian she was from. So they look at Asia as a monolith.

Plus, Steinfeld is part Filipino.

I never understood the outrage over “Kate is Asian” until a friend likened them to rabid shippers wanting their fanfics to be canon. It started making sense. People just want the look and none of the implications that come with it. Remember the Ancient One? I’m one of those people who was happy they race changed the character because of the mystical Asian character who speaks in proverbs like a magical Confucius already aged badly. And my family is Taiwanese.

[Iron Maiden]

You might want to ask the other women who post here, like Iron Maiden, if their arguments get deconstructed in typical fashion by men, such as when she complains about Doom getting badly written.

Yes, I can vouch for that. Although many times people think my handle here is referring to the band. I used to because I liked the T.H.U.N.D.E.R Agents when I was young and pictured the character Iron Maiden as possible ally of Doom's in a crossover.

You're on a comic forum. It doesn't matter what gender you are, your arguments are going to be deconstructed and labeled ignorant. If you want special treatment for being a woman, you're in the wrong place.

I really don't think her accusation getting treated differently is unfounded anyway. But if you come in with a thread that is even slightly controversial then expect an argument about your views. For example, when you say Maria Stark has always been a Latina chances are you haven't read the original Silver Age stuff. Even thought Kirby always visualized Ben Grimm as Jewish, it was never mentioned.

[Maria Stark]

It's all been pointed out earlier, but:

a) Bendis didn't retcon Tony being adopted, it was Gillian
b) There really isn't much evidence that Tony's mom is anything other than of white European ancestry
c) I'm not aware of anything saying Howard Stark is Jewish.
d) Like many others, I assumed this would be about Snap Wilson.

Allow me to clarify these points then:

a) Yes, I know that Kieron Gillen was responsible for the retcon. But, as Gillen handled this plot point, everything could be treated as a lie and things could easily go back to what they were before or completely ignored. It was Bendis, who made the decision to make this the core of his Iron Man stories and chose to completely reverse the character's heritage: A (possibly) Jewish father who worked for S.H.I.E.L.D., was replaced by a Nazi who works for Hydra, and a Latin women were replaced by a white woman. And although it may be disagreed, I firmly believe that this was intentional, because it is an inversion that is too good to be just a coincidence.

b) I can tell you from experience, that it doesn't matter if your hair is natural blond and your skin is whiter than marble, in the United States, the moment you open your mouth and start speaking English with a Latin American accent, you immediately stop being white and become a Latino. In addition, I also learned that for Americans, there are different types of “white European”. It is only in fact white, who is from northern or eastern Europe. Now, if you come from a European Latin country, you are a Class-A Latino and if you come from a Latin American country, you are a Class-B Latino. It is not a generalization on my part, and it does not necessarily mean that you will automatically be treated badly in the U.S. because of this, but the reality is that you will never be considered white.

c) The surname Stark, may be of Scottish, or Jewish-German origin. The Agent Carter TV show, chose the last option for the MCU Howard Stark and I believe that this is also valid for the original comics version (at least in Bendis' mind), and I already explained why I believe that in answer a).

d) If in fact, I am wrong about this, I have no problem being corrected. If the title can be edited to stop causing confusion, then I will do it. If not, the only way is to clarify the issue, when someone else gets confused. If I tried not to refer to that point so far, it was not out of arrogance on my part, but just so that this tread don't get too off topic.

[Maria Stark]

One, Carbonell is Catalan in origin, which is not Spanish.

Two, white latinos exist. There was this whole españoles, indios, and mestizos classification system dedicated to skin color and so-called blood purity. End of discussion.

One, yes I know that Catalans, like the Basques for example, are not ethnically Spanish. Catalans even have their own nationality officially recognized by Spain. But I refer not to the point of view, or legal status, of the Catalans, Spaniards or even the world at large. I refer to the point of view of the North Americans. For them, Catalonia is part of Spain and Spain is a Latin country. So, who is born in Catalonia is a latino. Actually, I even doubt that Americans in general know that this surname is of Catalan origin and only know people with this surname who are of Cuban origin.

Two, as I mentioned in another answer, I can say from personal experience that there is no such thing as “white Latinos” in the U.S. For North Americans, person is considered a class-A latino if is originally from Spain or Portugal for example, and, if a person is originally from a country in Latin America, is considered a class-B latino. End of discussion.