The most racist retcon in all of Marvel Comics history.

[DrNewGod]

Steve was born in the US. But his parents came over from Ireland.

I thought that made him first generation Irish-American.

Unless I'm mistaken, First Generation means an immigrant that comes to the US. According to the Constitution, anyone born in the US, or in any station abroad under its jurisdiction is a US citizen. If Steves parents immigrated, and were In Country at his birth, they were First Generation, and he was Native Born (what Israelis would call a Sabra).

[charliehustle415]

Unless I'm mistaken, First Generation means an immigrant that comes to the US. According to the Constitution, anyone born in the US, or in any station abroad under its jurisdiction is a US citizen. If Steves parents immigrated, and were In Country at his birth, they were First Generation, and he was Native Born (what Israelis would call a Sabra).

Nada, "First Generation" is the first generation born in the United States.

[U.N. Owen]

You can be absolutely sure, that I do realize just how freaking racist this entire mindset is. I am perfectly aware of this, because I have lived it myself, for all six years that I lived in the United States. In fact, the main reason why my family returned to Brazil, was because my husband was getting absolutely ashamed of the way his friends treated me. If this is the predominant mindset throughout the United States, I obviously cannot say. I can only talk about my own experience.

While I cannot attest to your experiences since we are both from different continents, I can certainly attest to how you argued that the following is erroneous, Americentric, and flat out wrong when it comes to both legal and historical records.

I can tell you from experience, that it doesn't matter if your hair is natural blond and your skin is whiter than marble, in the United States, the moment you open your mouth and start speaking English with a Latin American accent, you immediately stop being white and become a Latino. In addition, I also learned that for Americans, there are different types of “white European”. It is only in fact white, who is from northern or eastern Europe. Now, if you come from a European Latin country, you are a Class-A Latino and if you come from a Latin American country, you are a Class-B Latino. It is not a generalization on my part, and it does not necessarily mean that you will automatically be treated badly in the U.S. because of this, but the reality is that you will never be considered white.

The maiden name is Carbonell, which is of Catalan origin. So she may have been Spanish or might have Spanish decedents.

The Spanish are white, regardless of what people in the USA think.

The Spanish are white. It's just that Americans in the 1800s tried to say they were of a different racial stock because they wanted to avoid countries with high numbers of catholics and orthodox christians. It's why they were so readily to accept English, Scottish, German, and Scandinavian immigrants, but they hated slavs, Italians, Spanish, Portuguese, Irish, and Poles. The Spanish suddenly became an acceptable white group whenever it came to pitting races against each other.

Even hispanic and latino WWII veterans were labeled white until they became a convenient punching bag like during the 1860s Gold Rush or the assorted workers' strikes they participated in.

[BitParallel]

Was that really the first time that her surname was named in continuity? It would be interesting to know that for sure, because when I started collecting Iron Man, after I moved to the U.S., I was told to avoid Kavanagh's run like a plague, because in addition to being bad, he got every single thing wrong about Iron Man . Eventually, I ended up reading these stories, and just assumed that this was another mistake, like all the mess with Meredith McCall's continuity.

My argument that Maria Stark is of Latin origin, comes from Iron Man Volume 3 issue # 30, published in 2000

I honestly don’t think this proves that she is not white. Maria being a woc is a reach imo.

And Howard being a nice husband is ooc xD

[Beetle]

Okay so for a moment let's pretend that Maria Stark was latina.

Has that ever made any kind of impact on Tony? Affected his storylines? Been brought up in his own inner monologues or narration?

Or does Tony just see himself as a white man?

[Will Evans]

Okay so for a moment let's pretend that Maria Stark was latina.

Has that ever made any kind of impact on Tony? Affected his storylines? Been brought up in his own inner monologues or narration?

Or does Tony just see himself as a white man?

I always thought Maria as having Italian roots.

It adds more to Tony’s relationship to Madame Masque and Count Nefaria.

Also homages Tony as a modern day Renaissance Man compared to Da Vinci.



Howard is more as an homage to Howard Hughes like Tony was.

[Mike_Murdock]

Yeah, Tony Stark has always been portrayed as an American man of European ancestry. This is true whether he has some Mediterranean heritage and possibly someone in his past was Jewish or maybe Scottish.

[Havok83]

Some people need to learn what racism is before proclaiming something as racist

[Maria Stark]

Sorry you were treated so badly. You should have come to London. Loads of Brazilians over here and they love it in London (at least the ones I know do!).

The maiden name is Carbonell, which is of Catalan origin. So she may have been Spanish or might have Spanish decedents.

The Spanish are white, regardless of what people in the USA think.

Very nice to know! I have never been to London, but my father-in-law lived there for a few years when he was young, and liked it very much. Certainly, all the people from the U.K. that I met in the United States, treated me the right way, that is, as just an ordinary human being, neither better nor worse than anyone else.

[Maria Stark]

Some people need to learn what racism is before proclaiming something as racist

Do you mean, then, that when prejudice is directed towards Latinos, it is not racism? Are you sure about that? Because when I started talking to the daughter of one of my neighbors, she looked at me in amazement and told me that she thought I was white. I assure you, that hearing something like that come out of a child's mouth really hurt. How should I call it, if not racism? Any suggestions?

[Dreaded Porcupine]

I always thought Tony was Italian. I’m 100% (minus ancestry.com to really prove it) Italian so I’m partial to this. No doubt Howard Stark was Howard Hughes. Maria could be either Italian or Latino. Growing up Italian’s weren’t always treated as white. I didn’t particularly care either way. I wasn’t sensitive. I’m more bothered by the whole adopted thing. Tony looks like Howard. What a terrible retcon.

[Haquim]

1. I admit I was convinced Maria Stark was of italian-american origin because I remember an old Iron Man story with Tony fighting the Ghost in Italy (Justin Hammer and his powered goons were also involved) and I remember Tony going there because of something that had to do with his mother's family belongings.

2. For the most part italians are as white as other europeans, the peoples inhabiting the italian peninsula have intermingled for millenia, at one time you had normans in the south before that you had lombards in the north and a thousand other people since before the romans, eastern ethicities in the east, Franks in the north west, and so on. Therefore it's pretty difficult (and stupid) to claim italians come from a distinct ethnicity. Keeping that in mind, the idea that racism has anything to do with the retcon becomes silly.

3. While his mother (now surrogate mother after the last retcon) might have been italian or italian-american, Tony Stark's father was as american as one could be.

4. The retcon was terrible as it was done purely for shock value (which of course Bendis immediately made worse, because that's what Bendis does), but it's certainly not a case of racism. It's "just" bad writing.

[Alan2099]

For the most part, Italians are considered white people with funny accents. Like the British, but they eat more pasta.
(Is that racist or just a bad joke? Was there ever any difference?)

I assure you, that hearing something like that come out of a child's mouth really hurt.

Children are known for saying stupid things and not understanding what they're talking about. Don't let it get you down.

[Havok83]

Do you mean, then, that when prejudice is directed towards Latinos, it is not racism? Are you sure about that? Because when I started talking to the daughter of one of my neighbors, she looked at me in amazement and told me that she thought I was white. I assure you, that hearing something like that come out of a child's mouth really hurt. How should I call it, if not racism? Any suggestions?

Latino is not a race. Whether Tony was changed from being a white Spaniard to a white Italian , his race has not changed, therefore this not an example of racism. Racism and prejudice are also not the same thing. People misuse racism as a blanket term to describe all forms of prejudice without actually undestanding what it means. Especially with whats been going on in the US the past couple of months, thats not something that should be used lightly. Changing the origin of a fictional character's mother is not racism.

[Mike_Murdock]

For the most part, Italians are considered white people with funny accents. Like the British, but they eat more pasta.
(Is that racist or just a bad joke? Was there ever any difference?)

For what it's worth, southern Europeans were once heavily discriminated against in the United States compared to northern and western Europeans, but that's largely a thing of the past.