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  1. #16
    Mighty Member failo.legendkiller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    Though I suppose they'll just put out more death metal tie ins to hold people over.
    or to alienate them for good!
    All kidding aside, if you don't appreciate Death Metal there's nothing interesting at DC by the moment.
    A relaunch of everything would be welcomed, I'm hoping they have learned the lesson and will take a direction opposite to Didio's after Flashpoint. Rebirth was a great starting point sadly prematurely interrupted, I'd start from something similar.

  2. #17
    Extraordinary Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by failo.legendkiller View Post
    or to alienate them for good!
    All kidding aside, if you don't appreciate Death Metal there's nothing interesting at DC by the moment.
    A relaunch of everything would be welcomed, I'm hoping they have learned the lesson and will take a direction opposite to Didio's after Flashpoint. Rebirth was a great starting point sadly prematurely interrupted, I'd start from something similar.
    I'm hopeful, I remember Jim Lee going out of his way to say DC wouldn't reboot in 2020 so as long as they just build on what they started in rebirth with the next relaunch and get solid creative teams, we should be fine.

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
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    Why reboot/relaunch? The problem isn't continuity its telling tired tropes and an audience not buying new or diverse characters.

  4. #19
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    I wouldn't mind a staggered launch, just a few new books each month. Save the important books that deal with post death metal stuff till January. Because right now, the current lineup of DC books will just be so weak for November and December. Though I suppose they'll just put out more death metal tie ins to hold people over.
    A staggered relaunch would potentially be a good idea for a few reasons; economic turmoil, pandemic recovery, etc. A slow roll out that lets people actually sample everything instead of being buried under a mountain of new books all at once doesn't seem like the worst idea. I mean, it was kind of fun going into the LCS in 2011 and grabbing a billion new #1's each week and seeing what they offered, but that broke my comics budget and I won't burn cash like that again.

    I'm at the point where I don't really care about the continuity or the overall line or any of it. I just want titles I can enjoy that can tell their story without getting dragged into someone else's Event every few months.

    More than new creative teams or directions what I'm really interested in is whether we get new editors. The Bat office especially needs editors who won't sacrifice all the other heroes like Kate, Damian, Dick, and Tim, for the sake of the guy who is already the undisputed #1 money maker at DC.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  5. #20
    Incredible Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    A staggered relaunch would potentially be a good idea for a few reasons; economic turmoil, pandemic recovery, etc. A slow roll out that lets people actually sample everything instead of being buried under a mountain of new books all at once doesn't seem like the worst idea. I mean, it was kind of fun going into the LCS in 2011 and grabbing a billion new #1's each week and seeing what they offered, but that broke my comics budget and I won't burn cash like that again.

    I'm at the point where I don't really care about the continuity or the overall line or any of it. I just want titles I can enjoy that can tell their story without getting dragged into someone else's Event every few months.

    More than new creative teams or directions what I'm really interested in is whether we get new editors. The Bat office especially needs editors who won't sacrifice all the other heroes like Kate, Damian, Dick, and Tim, for the sake of the guy who is already the undisputed #1 money maker at DC.
    Sacrifice? You make it sound like Bruce is dependent on Kate, Damian, Dick, Tim and the others for his success and placement as the undisputed #1 money maker. When in actuality it's the other way around. Nothing is stopping those characters from getting their own books or spotlight except their fans who are not strong enough in their support, its up to them to keep it: don't lay their problems at Bruce's door. Its batfamily fans who demand their inclusion in Batman stories but then complain that they're only used to benefit Batman. The solution is simple, keep them away from Batman and let them sink or swim on their own. That way no one is sacrificed for the sake of another.

  6. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    Sacrifice? You make it sound like Bruce is dependent on Kate, Damian, Dick, Tim and the others for his success and placement as the undisputed #1 money maker. When in actuality it's the other way around. Nothing is stopping those characters from getting their own books or spotlight except their fans who are not strong enough in their support, its up to them to keep it: don't lay their problems at Bruce's door. Its batfamily fans who demand their inclusion in Batman stories but then complain that they're only used to benefit Batman. The solution is simple, keep them away from Batman and let them sink or swim on their own. That way no one is sacrificed for the sake of another.
    Hmm. On the other hand, whenever they get those solo series, DC winds up either screwing them over or cancelling them for controversial reasons.

    For Cass (First Cancelled because they thought there being a Batgirl & a Batwoman would be confusing, and the following miniseries was given to her worst writer), Steph (Flashpoint), Tim (Flashpoint) & Batwoman (They alienated her best writers by being against the character being happy in marriage and the controversy tanked the book, not helped by the following creative talent).

  7. #22
    Extraordinary Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    A staggered relaunch would potentially be a good idea for a few reasons; economic turmoil, pandemic recovery, etc. A slow roll out that lets people actually sample everything instead of being buried under a mountain of new books all at once doesn't seem like the worst idea. I mean, it was kind of fun going into the LCS in 2011 and grabbing a billion new #1's each week and seeing what they offered, but that broke my comics budget and I won't burn cash like that again.

    I'm at the point where I don't really care about the continuity or the overall line or any of it. I just want titles I can enjoy that can tell their story without getting dragged into someone else's Event every few months.

    More than new creative teams or directions what I'm really interested in is whether we get new editors. The Bat office especially needs editors who won't sacrifice all the other heroes like Kate, Damian, Dick, and Tim, for the sake of the guy who is already the undisputed #1 money maker at DC.
    I agree with everything you're saying, but the bat editors already got replaced when James Tynion came on board.

  8. #23
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    Sacrifice? You make it sound like Bruce is dependent on Kate, Damian, Dick, Tim and the others for his success and placement as the undisputed #1 money maker. When in actuality it's the other way around. Nothing is stopping those characters from getting their own books or spotlight except their fans who are not strong enough in their support, its up to them to keep it: don't lay their problems at Bruce's door. Its batfamily fans who demand their inclusion in Batman stories but then complain that they're only used to benefit Batman. The solution is simple, keep them away from Batman and let them sink or swim on their own. That way no one is sacrificed for the sake of another.
    Nah, you read me wrong man.

    Batman doesn't need anyone to be sacrificed for his continued popularity and profitability....but that's what DC does anyway. Other people get screwed over so Batman can be broody about it, or they get written like idiots so Bruce can look smart. The reality is that neither of those things need to be done (for Bruce's sake or anyone else's), but it happens all the time.

    And let's not get into the "fans are why these characters don't have books" discussion. That's not the case here. Sometimes low sales and low fan support are why a book gets cancelled or a character gets put on the chopping block. I'm pretty sure this is why Batwing didn't last, for example, and I think it's what eventually brought Azreal to cancellation too (among others). But Nightwing sells just fine (when DC isn't dragging him through two years of BS like they are right now), Tim sold just fine, Cass sold just fine. All those characters got cancelled or abused not for a lack of fan support but because DC sacrificed them to prop up the one character at DC who doesn't need any help being propped up.

    And if I could get Nightwing and Kate Kane away from Batman, I would. In a heartbeat. But I don't get to make that call.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  9. #24
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    I agree with everything you're saying, but the bat editors already got replaced when James Tynion came on board.
    Did they? I totally missed that!

    Who do we have now? Do we know anything about them?
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  10. #25
    Radioactive Blight's Avatar
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    Yeah I'm thinking there's a reset a coming if this teaser for #100 suggests.

    EdtkAQZVoAAgR9j.jpg
    And behold I shall be a blight upon the land and everything I touch shall wither and die.

  11. #26
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    So Barbara is Oracle again.
    I hope that means, Cass will get a mantle once again.

  12. #27
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Did they? I totally missed that!

    Who do we have now? Do we know anything about them?
    Ben Abernathy.

    He was on the Injustice and Dceased creative teams prior. Don't know what he's background is aside from that

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by batnbreakfast View Post
    Why reboot/relaunch? The problem isn't continuity its telling tired tropes and an audience not buying new or diverse characters.
    CORRECTION they are not support DC's.

    Image and others are not having issues selling new and diverse folks. Tynion has diverse books at Boom-that have found fans.

    DC refuse to support theirs.


    Its batfamily fans who demand their inclusion in Batman stories but then complain that they're only used to benefit Batman.
    What fans are screaming this? Many want him AWAY from everyone else.
    It's comic book stores who demand Batman be in those books to JUSTIFY ordering them.

    Jason Todd has 100 issues.
    Nightwing has over 200.
    Cassandra Cain did it for 72.
    Jean Paul did 100.
    Tim has over 200.
    Babs has over 100.
    Birds of Prey over 100
    Harley almost 100.
    Catwoman over 200.

    Batman was not in all those issues. They all did it by themselves.
    Yet DC keeps them held hostage to Batman.

    Superman didn't hold Steel, Legion, Superboy or Supergirl hostage. Until recently.
    While Green Lantern is held hostage by Hal and Flash by Barry.

    DC comics keeps doing this mess and that is what fans are fed up with.
    Then we keep seeing restarts.

  14. #29
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Not sure where you're getting those numbers from - a few are wrong.
    Jason Todd has 100 issues.
    Nope. Adding up all the Red Hood and the Outlaws and Red Hood/Arsenal issues only gives 79.
    Nightwing has over 200.
    279, counting all issues of Nightwing plus Grayson, but not his time as Batman.
    Cassandra Cain did it for 72.
    You miscounted, it's 79. 73 issues in her first series and 6 in her second.
    Jean Paul did 100.
    Yeah, this one's correct.
    Tim has over 200.
    224 to be exact, counting the three Robin minis, the Robin ongoing, and the Red Robin book.
    Babs has over 100.
    Not quite. 52 + 46 = 98. She'll be on 102 when her current run ends though.
    Birds of Prey over 100
    That was just in series one. It's 198 if you include Batgirl and the Birds of Prey from Rebirth and the other two runs from Brightest Day and New 52. Almost 200!
    Harley almost 100.
    142. You forgot her original run from the year 2000 and the Rebirth run has now lasted long enough to take her past 100 (counting New 52) without it.
    Catwoman over 200.
    256.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgoth View Post
    So Barbara is Oracle again.
    I hope that means, Cass will get a mantle once again.
    Take a closer look. Both Cass and Steph are Batgirls. Cass seems to have a slight modification of her original suit, and Steph's is a modification of her Spoiler costume with the bat symbol added. Babs seems to still be wearing a costume too even though she's sat at a computer doing the Oracle role. They're all Batgirl by the looks of it.
    Last edited by Digifiend; 07-25-2020 at 03:30 AM.
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  15. #30
    Spectacular Member agentofthebat's Avatar
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    Not another reset. I think it needs one but I'm worried this time.

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