Why having the universe revolve around Batman is a problem.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

You honestly think it’s merely an assumption that Luthor would sell less than Joker?...

More than Joker? Maybe not. But more than Robin and Catwoman? Maybe. Or, at the very least, enough to justify publishing it and making a profit? Uh, definitely. And unless you're actually arguing that Lex just wouldn't move any units whatsoever, then that's the point. DC leaves money on the table by choosing not to push these characters that they have in their roster.

Also you can complain about a Robin 80th anniversary...

Oh my god, how many times do I have to say that I'm not bashing anything?? I'm just saying it would be nice if DC actually you know, paid attention to their other characters.

And it’s just not true that Batman’s the only one that gets talented writers...

Lol. That's your argument? That Batman didn't have Johns (even though Johns wrote the Earth One OGNs)? Meanwhile, literally all the writers you've mentioned have worked on Batman and on top of that, Batman had Moench, Dixon, Snyder, King, etc. And again, not at all saying that Batman doesn't deserve top talent, but DC does tend to shovel top talent right to Batman even when it's a bad fit. King was actually a good example of that. Great writer, but his Batman was very hit or miss. But, the thinking process was "King is starting to become a big name. Let's stick him on Batman."

Tynion's Batman, though, is fire.

Hollywood didn’t assume ****...

Dude, Hollywood's past aversion towards women and people of color, specifically women of color, is well-documented:

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And it's not just a lack of female protagonists. In 1995, women only had 33% of speaking roles in film. And, honestly, the fact that they had decades to make a Wonder Woman film, yet didn't until 2017, while they'd made like 10 Batman films and 5 Superman films by that point is more than proof of the point.

I don’t know why you keep pointing to Wonder Woman...

Uh, because it was still a huge financial success and has been the most critically acclaimed film of the DCEU. Not a Superman or Batman film, but a Wonder Woman film is the most critically beloved film of DC's recent offerings. You may not like that fact, but it's a fact. And I literally just mentioned Aquaman in my post, another non-Batman character. So...how does your bringing him up disprove my point?

You're really missing the point. No, it's not about getting Wonder Woman or any other character to "replace" or "dethrone" Batman. It's about the fact that other characters can have great success if you let them instead of literally having everything be about Batman.

vague statements for why Wonder Woman does in fact work.

Yeah, except everything of what I said is true. Wonder Woman is an iconic character who has maintained her own series for decades. Are you going to argue that she isn't?

March 2020: Wonder Woman ranked 66th on the Diamond chart....

Again, you're really missing the point. Again, Marvel literally gives entire events to characters that sell at the same level as Wonder Woman. Captain America? Sells at the same level WW does. Thor? Same level. Even Venom sells at the same level as Wonder Woman. However, while Wonder Woman is rarely given a chance to shine in the larger DC lineup, Marvel will have Thor and Captain America headline their own events.

And again, the fact that there were over 8 Batman titles is proof of my point.

Ok now let’s just go year by year

2019: the best Wonder Woman comic ranked 365. The top book was a Batman comic (Detective 1000, but let’s ignore anniversary issues) Batman has 9 books just in the top 50. Green Lantern had 4 titles ahead of WW’s best with the highest being over 100 spots over her. Flash had 3 with two being over 150 spots over. Over 10 Superman comics ranked higher (albeit the highest was Batman and Superman 1)

2018: the best Wonder Woman book was 236. Way better. 2 Batman books were the top 10 comics of the year. 26 books featuring the name Batman were in the top 100. 38 titles finished ahead of Wonder Woman’s best. The best Catwoman issue ranked higher. GL had two titles in the top 100. Flash generally out performed Wonder Woman that year.

2017: best WW title was 287. This whole thread is complaining about Batman getting cosmic stories. Dark Knights Metal had 4 titles in the top 10. 41 of the top 100 books that year were Batman related. That’s nearly half the top 100 issues sold that year. Flash had 3 titles in the top 100 and 19 ahead of WW’s best issue. It well out paced her and her book had lower issue numbers. Green Lantern didn’t have a hot year but it’s best issue was 229. Superman’s book generally sold higher than WW’s peak

I can’t find year end data on 2016.

2015: WW got clobbered at 439. To be fair most did because Star Wars came out. Batman got pushed to 33 for the finale of Endgame. Supes got relegated to the 300’s.

2014 was a lot better for as she got to 142 in her Superman team yo for Future’s End and her main title got one issue at 218 though everything after that got in the 400’s unless she was connected to Superman. Over 20 Bat comics made the top 100 and I realized I didn’t even search for Detective Comics

2013. Again Superman/Wonder Woman had a few issues sell well but her solo had one issue in

In fact the only time in the last decade where WW had solo books in the top 100 were at the start of the new 52. She was out by issue 3 and in the 200’s by issue 4. Flash, Green Lantern, Batman, Action, Detective and Batgirl started higher. And aside from Flash and Batgirl, WW had clearly the steepest drop from issue to issue.

Comichron literally puts Wonder Woman as consistently in the top 100 monthly sales just last year, right next to Catwoman, Guardians of the Galaxy, Detective Comics, and above Flash, Daredevil, and Captain America. So, yeah, your argument doesn't really hold because a) sales constantly fluctuate and b) a lot of very iconic characters have middling sales. Heck, Superman sells around the same amount as Diana. And that's the point. If Marvel ONLY went by the monthly sales, the only characters who'd get any attention would be Spider-Man and the X-Men and we would never even see the FF or Thor or Captain America or they would only be presented to us through the lens of Spider-Man, but that's not the reality.

That’s the data. Whatever they do it doesn’t work out...

So, we should, what, obviously box Diana away for good and bring out another Batman title to take her place? Or just pretend that she doesn’t have a larger role in the DCU than just being that woman who shows up in the background during one of Batman’s big stories?

See, because that’s the point. She sells at the same level as Captain America and Thor do and yet, Thor and Captain America are given a lot more weight and prominence in their universe than Diana is given in hers. It's not about replacing or outshining. It's about simply sharing the spotlight. And, despite your insistence to pick on Wonder Woman, this is not a problem unique to Wonder Woman. DC publishes other titles, but it doesn't throw nearly as much capital behind those other titles or characters as they do behind the Bat-characters and not only that but other characters in the DCU are too often presented through the lens of “how does this person relate to Batman?”

Again, if Marvel editorial operated on that philosophy, most of their iconic characters wouldn't be around either. That's the difference. Marvel has developed properties that may not have an immediate return on investment but lays the groundwork for a more successful universe. Meanwhile, DC sticks with one property over all the others and the universe is weaker for it.

Marvel is very similar with Spider-Man dominating and having crossovers and multiple titles, the biggest difference is Batman has a higher peak.

Okay, so tell me, how many of other characters' titles has Batman appeared in just this past month? Now, compare that to Spider-Man. I'm betting that Batman has been in more of other characters' titles than Spidey has. Batman and the Bat-family also have more ongoings than Spider-Man does.

Now, take into account the fact that Amazing Spider-Man actually outsells Batman and Spider-Man is, in general, a higher grossing franchise than Batman is. And yet, Marvel still doesn't feel the need to pimp out Spider-Man as much as DC does Batman. If your logic held true, wouldn't Marvel be shoving Peter into literally every title?? The answer lies in this simple fact: the leadership at Marvel has more faith in their other characters than the leadership of DC has had in their other characters.

And I know I keep bringing up Marvel, but that's because it's a virtually parallel situation that proves how your logic falls apart. If only investing in your most popular character was the pathway to success, then why is it that Marvel doesn't do that and yet still consistently outsells DC?

Also, what's with the hostility? You like Batman, we get it, but are you so invested in the status quo of Batman-over-everyone that the very notion that other characters/properties deserve a chance to shine is offensive to you?