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  1. #301
    Astonishing Member DurararaFTW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    100% agree. People always go on about Batgod this and Batgod that but honestly when was the last time you could point to Batman and legitimately claim Batgod was in full effect?
    Dark Night: Metal his trip in that event would have absolutely killed Bruce if the story treated him like a normal guy with no superpowers. He survives cataclysmic events even without any tech protecting him.

    Probably Morrison's JLA. That accusation is so overblown and such a cheap and tired attack line. Batman has been put through the ringer for over the last decade plus, he has had no easy victories, been made to look as the biggest jerk/a-hole in the dcu and has become the whipping boy for the batfamily.
    How do you figure? Damian died, Tim is kidnapped for months, Dick is shot in the head and taken hostage and has his identity revealed to the world, Alfred died. Bruce has taken blows but there's no way you can argue that the rest of the Batfamily is somehow being left comparatively unharmed.

    Accusations of Batgod are a lazy attack line when one doesn't have a legitimate or compelling argument to make against Batman, it's returning to a dried up well. Any objective reader can see that there has been no sightings of Batgod in forever. Just read King's run and Tynion's current run as proof of that.
    There's been like four seperate Justice League storylines since the New 52 that involved Batman being the last member of the Justice League still standing, as opposed to all those superpowered beings. It's never someone other then Batman.

    And Synder's The Batman Who Laughs is not evidence, that character is a parody and a mcguffin who serves to fit an over the top narrative. He should not even be seen as a real character.
    You don't get to dismiss The Batman Who Laughs as a parody, he is the main antagonist of the DCU currently. Where at other times there might be Luthor or Darkseid, currently we got TBWL, he is taking the spot where otherwise we might have a more serious character and he should be evaluated as such.
    Last edited by DurararaFTW; 08-09-2020 at 08:49 AM.

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by DurararaFTW View Post
    Dark Night: Metal his trip in that event would have absolutely killed Bruce if the story treated him like a normal guy with no superpowers. He survives cataclysmic events even without any tech protecting him.



    How do you figure? Damian died, Tim is kidnapped for months, Dick is shot in the head and taken hostage and has his identity revealed to the world, Alfred died. Bruce has taken blows but there's no way you can argue that the rest of the Batfamily is somehow being left comparatively unharmed.



    There's been like four seperate Justice League storylines since the New 52 that involved Batman being the last member of the Justice League still standing, as opposed to all those superpowered beings. It's never someone other then Batman.



    You don't get to dismiss The Batman Who Laughs as a parody, he is the main antagonist of the DCU currently. Where at other times there might be Luthor or Darkseid, currently we got TBWL, he is taking the spot where otherwise we might have a more serious character and he should be evaluated as such.
    To your first point, Batman hasn’t been treated like a regular man since the 50’s then if that’s the standard.

    Bruce had his son die, his ward die, has had his skull cracked in Hush, had been kidnapped tortured and clones, been memory wiped by his colleagues, been sent through time losing a year of his life, had someone who might be his brother try to kill him..... like yeah he’s been through stuff....

    Okay and how many times outside of Batman Who Laughs has there been a bonafide Bat villain leafing events. Nekron and Sinestro led events, Super Boy Prime, Darkseid, and Luthor have led events, Circe has led an event.

  3. #303
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Batman is a comic book peak human, like Captain America, Wolverine, Black Panther and Deathstroke (who is sligthly stronger that all of those), wich mean that he certanly can pull off things that not even the best olympic athletes in real life could (punch througth solid concrete, dodge bullets or at least dodge the aim, bettet stamina, being able to beat animals like tigers or gorillas, etc), but some writers had definetly take it too far and has him doing stuff that he frankly shouldn't pull off even taking into account his beyond human feats, hell the other characthers that i mention also had jobbing aura (well except for Tchalla, he isn't used often enougth to have one), but because is essentially the top dog of the DC universe, is more anoying.
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  4. #304
    Astonishing Member DurararaFTW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    To your first point, Batman hasn’t been treated like a regular man since the 50’s then if that’s the standard.
    He doesn't travel to a different multiverse, get trapped into lava or primordial soup or whatever, cycle through a life time and then end up back home like nothing happened every week since the 50s. I appreciate that Batman sells comics, he'll be a significant part of every event. That's where we are and have been for long time. Dark Nights: Metal and it's sequels stopped trying to employ a modicum of moderation even by those standards. The latest preview got all meta with the idea that people are probably sick of all these Batmans by now but guess what, it's not like the next event actually can be about other characters completely. They are burning us out on a character that they can't put on the back burner. Which is just dumb.

    Bruce had his son die, his ward die, has had his skull cracked in Hush, had been kidnapped tortured and clones, been memory wiped by his colleagues, been sent through time losing a year of his life, had someone who might be his brother try to kill him..... like yeah he’s been through stuff....
    Well yes, if things happening to other members of the batfamily is an example of Batman specifically being the whipping boy of the batfamily, then he has indeed been the whipping boy of the Batfamily, not just for past decade plus, but from the moment a batfamily existed for things to happen to, obviously. It would be impossible for it to be otherwise, why is this something to complain about?

    Okay and how many times outside of Batman Who Laughs has there been a bonafide Bat villain leafing events. Nekron and Sinestro led events, Super Boy Prime, Darkseid, and Luthor have led events, Circe has led an event.
    The Batman comics themselves have crossover events that even comics outside the family tie into every year. Batman villains are busier then others for good reason, near half the DC line is set in Gotham and stuff has to happen every week. Two Face can't just take break for half a decade before comics back as a universe threatening threat like Circe. Even with all that Joker: Last Laugh and the like do happen.

  5. #305
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    I think Jimmy Olsen was more regularly doing batshit stuff than Batman and Robin were back in the 50s/60s.

    Even if Batman did abnormal stuff back then, the stories weren't treated as being ultra serious with violence and gore like we have now (which make them MORE dumb, not less) and he was actually a fun and enjoyable person to read about. Batman has never been a regular man, but there is a clear difference in how that plays out back then vs. now.

  6. #306
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I think Jimmy Olsen was more regularly doing batshit stuff than Batman and Robin were back in the 50s/60s.

    Even if Batman did abnormal stuff back then, the stories weren't treated as being ultra serious with violence and gore like we have now (which make them MORE dumb, not less) and he was actually a fun and enjoyable person to read about. Batman has never been a regular man, but there is a clear difference in how that plays out back then vs. now.
    Pretty much, Batman is heavily inspired by Pulp heroes who regurlary did stuff that normal humans couldn't (like beating tigers), so if is true that he was never quite human, but batgod wasn't really a thing until Morrison and that worked because everyone in that book has cool moments (except Diana, well she has one but is pretty small in comparison with the others).
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  7. #307
    Fantastic Member captchuck's Avatar
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    Superman would be the more logical choice, but he isn't dark enough for today's readership.

  8. #308
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by captchuck View Post
    Superman would be the more logical choice, but he isn't dark enough for today's readership.
    Actually, superman became so dark that he is evil now most of the time.*/melts you with a sharp look

    The Joker with superman powers.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 08-09-2020 at 12:45 PM.

  9. #309
    Fantastic Member captchuck's Avatar
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    Yeah! But, I guess that's not my Superman. I doubt that anybody who worked on Action or Superman in the 1940s thru the 1970s would recognize this character.

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Mate! We are having a batgod event. Why shouldn't we treat bwl as an evidence for batfans wanting everything and everyfield to be dominated by batman? . And if superman's powers can be restricted for making a balanced dcu. For example, supes being less faster than flash,less intelligent than lex/bruce, .. Etc. Then batman should be restricted as well.There should genre locks for characters like batman and batman himself especially . Even if batman ventures into scifi. He shouldn't be taking on cthulu-esque entities nor supernatural beings.
    The Batman who Laughs is not and should not be seen as "our Batman" he is for all intents and purposes a completely separate character. All the ridiculously over the top things Synder has him doing is not an indictment of the real Batman. Does anyone look at injustice Superman or Wonder Woman and hold the "real" SM and WW to account for their actions? No they don't, if anything they complain. An alternate WW just killed Superman and used his spine as a weapon, did WW fans like that or claim this is a true representation of WW? I don't think so so why would one claim that the TBWL is a true representation of Batman or claim his actions are proof of Batgod. TBWL is a caricature at best and funny how no one was saying the same thing about Luthor when he was all powerful and doing basically what TBWL is doing, Lexgod anybody? And for all the talk or examples of Batgod you can find the opposite portrayal in the likes of King's run and others where Batman is seen as ineffective, incapable and pathetic. Batman is the only character that people seem to want scaled back while everyone else has to be more powerful. Any talk of scaling back SM or WW or Flash among others is met with strong opposition, but Batman; nah he has to made less effective or less capable. And its its only when dealing with Batman does people bring up realism and believability, he is just a man he should not be able to do this or that. But other characters (some with powers) do something above the their perceived level/capabilities and its just accepted because hey its comics, its not suppose to be believable and realism has no place here, its all fun and entertainment. Nothing but a double standard going on here.

  11. #311
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  12. #312
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    The Batman who Laughs is not and should not be seen as "our Batman" he is for all intents and purposes a completely separate character. All the ridiculously over the top things Synder has him doing is not an indictment of the real Batman. Does anyone look at injustice Superman or Wonder Woman and hold the "real" SM and WW to account for their actions? No they don't, if anything they complain. An alternate WW just killed Superman and used his spine as a weapon, did WW fans like that or claim this is a true representation of WW? I don't think so so why would one claim that the TBWL is a true representation of Batman or claim his actions are proof of Batgod. TBWL is a caricature at best and funny how no one was saying the same thing about Luthor when he was all powerful and doing basically what TBWL is doing, Lexgod anybody? And for all the talk or examples of Batgod you can find the opposite portrayal in the likes of King's run and others where Batman is seen as ineffective, incapable and pathetic. Batman is the only character that people seem to want scaled back while everyone else has to be more powerful. Any talk of scaling back SM or WW or Flash among others is met with strong opposition, but Batman; nah he has to made less effective or less capable. And its its only when dealing with Batman does people bring up realism and believability, he is just a man he should not be able to do this or that. But other characters (some with powers) do something above the their perceived level/capabilities and its just accepted because hey its comics, its not suppose to be believable and realism has no place here, its all fun and entertainment. Nothing but a double standard going on here.
    I don't think everyone who asks for Batman to be scaled back is bringing realism into it, just reiterating what made Batman appealing in the first place. Characters are not interchangeable you know, everything should be scaled to fit each specific character and their worlds. Batman is not a realistic human, he has more money than God and is a peak athlete that couldn't exist in real life. Nobody should be under the delusion that he's realistic. But he he fights gangsters, costumed supervillains with gimmicks, and low level supernatural threats like ghosts, vampire and werewolves. He pulls off impossible victories relative to his scale and that makes him awesome, and he can still be hurt in the process. Superman and Wonder Woman are OP if you pit them regularly against the type of villains Batman faces, but why on Earth would you do that? People don't want Superman to be scaled down because he regularly fights opponents on his level or higher anyway, he can still be hurt.

    Batman regularly defeating villains on their scale makes him boring, because I want to read Batman, not Gary Stu in his Bat-mecha armor fighting supervillains that don't fit what we regularly see in Gotham and makes it look effortless for someone at his level. You said Morrison was the last to write Batman as the Bat God (that's not true, but whatever), but Morrison wrote Bat-God wonderfully in "the Return of Bruce Wayne." Where Bruce survived against Hyper Adapter and brought it to the present day for the JL to deal with, because that is in their wheelhouse more than his. But him surviving that long and getting his desperate plan to work was what made him awesome, and it made everyone else look awesome too. Whereas Batman pulling random Kryptonite against Superman (when he deals with villains made of Kryptonite on a regular basis) or pulling a new type of magic lasso out of his ass to trap Wonder Woman in dream land is incredibly stupid and lame. And makes him boring too. Really the bad combo of Bat-God and Bat-Jerk have had a dire effect on the character and sucked all the warmth and likability out of him.

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    Pretty much, Batman is heavily inspired by Pulp heroes who regurlary did stuff that normal humans couldn't (like beating tigers), so if is true that he was never quite human, but batgod wasn't really a thing until Morrison and that worked because everyone in that book has cool moments (except Diana, well she has one but is pretty small in comparison with the others).
    Batgod lost under Morrison. Desaad took fingers off him in "Rock of Ages," Prometheus took him out in a fight and the Key knocked him unconscious - Connor has to rescue them all by himself in the Watchtower.

  14. #314
    Mighty Member LifeIsILL's Avatar
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    Batman isn't the only "Batgod" in DC.

    Green Arrow is the other "Arrow-God", but since almost no one reads Green Arrow comics. They wouldn't know about it. Hell, even people on this forum probably doesn't know. Green Arrow has defeated Darkseid and Etrigan twice, knocked out Martian Manhunter, defeated Mongul, knocked out Sinestro, recently defeated Parasite, killed more aliens and Gods than Batman probably, but he obviously doesn't get the same complaints. It's funny how Oliver has taken down the exact same super-powered beings that Batman has, but yet no one knows about it. That's my only problem with Batman getting center attention really.

    Quote Originally Posted by The True Detective View Post
    That has nothing to do with his mainstream popularity, he's in Batgod mode much less often outside comics in major media appearances. He wasn't the best at everything in the Adam West show, Burton movies, Nolan trilogy, Arkham series or Batman: The Animated Series and those are all the main reasons why he's popular.
    I disagree. I think he's in "stealth" Bat-God mode in the cartoons and movies. The main reason being you only see one side of him. In the comics at least you would see him hurt badly, or situations where he would have to escape, call for help, starts doubting himself, or where his plans just fail completely. In other media you almost never see that, he's always just "ready for any contingency" and a perfect human being. It's really ridiculous.
    Last edited by LifeIsILL; 08-09-2020 at 06:18 PM.

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by LifeIsILL View Post
    Batman isn't the only "Batgod" in DC.

    Green Arrow is the other "Arrow-God", but since almost no one reads Green Arrow comics. They wouldn't know about it. Hell, even people on this forum probably doesn't know. Green Arrow has defeated Darkseid and Etrigan twice, knocked out Martian Manhunter, defeated Mongul, knocked out Sinestro, recently defeated Parasite, killed more aliens and Gods than Batman probably, but he obviously doesn't get the same complaints. It's funny how Oliver has taken down the exact same super-powered beings that Batman has, but yet no one knows about it. That's my only problem with Batman getting center attention really.



    I disagree. I think he's in "stealth" Bat-God mode in the cartoons and movies. The main reason being you only see one side of him. In the comics at least you would see him hurt badly, or situations where he would have to escape, call for help, starts doubting himself, or where his plans just fail completely. In other media you almost never see that, he's always just "ready for any contingency" and a perfect human being. It's really ridiculous.
    No the cartoons have shown a Batman that is not Bat God. They tend to show a more human version of him that balance his life as Bruce and Batman-something the comics have ignored way too much.

    Was he Bat God in Batman the Animated Series? Static Shock? Justice League? Unless you mean the DVD movies which are based on the comics.

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