Page 23 of 24 FirstFirst ... 13192021222324 LastLast
Results 331 to 345 of 356
  1. #331
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    167

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Riight, why would a cosmic entity need a crazy guy in a bat suit to threaten the universe? Why is barbatos fixated on rich guy from a shitty city on a rock? The fact that both of these things need batmen tells you that batman ain't human, let alone normal.
    He was the one who Barbatos chose as a sacrifice due to his coming in his sights at the beginning of time or whatever. If it was green arrow then he would have been chosen as the sacrifice and we would have Dark Arrow where five arrows specially treated after wounding Ollie would have brought Barbatos to this world and would have got Arrowdoomssday, arrowaquaman and so on. It's not like Bruce specifically was chosen for anything special he had. The court could have treated anyone with the metals and called forth Barbatos. He didn't need a man dressed in a silly bat suit anymore than a man dressed like Robin Hood.
    Last edited by Denkota; 08-10-2020 at 01:52 AM.

  2. #332
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    9,478

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Denkota View Post
    He was the one who Barbatos chose as a sacrifice due to his coming in his sights at the beginning of time or whatever.
    Why was batman send back to the beginning of time? I am sure that doesn't happen often to "humans". Heck! You mentioned green arrow. That didn't happen to him(ugh! No thank you. I would prefer him protecting the little guy).Yeah! I know, i know we can come with some explanation in universe to build up nonsense.As said, the guy ain't human. Heck! I doubt even omega beams can kill the "human" .Dc has systematically given every avenue, genre, place.. Etc to batman. Batman can do time travel, space adventures, can fight magical Beasts, have bombastic action, street realistic level stories, is mecha, noir investigation stories... Etc. Is there anything left? . In fact, batman shouldn't be called batman anymore. Bruce wayne is superman for all intents and purposes. If you go buy the definitions that superman is the best and an all rounder who can do anything and everything . Just give the guy a big s symbol.At dc having no powers is a bigger superpower.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 08-10-2020 at 06:26 AM.

  3. #333
    Mighty Member LifeIsILL's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,656

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    No the cartoons have shown a Batman that is not Bat God. They tend to show a more human version of him that balance his life as Bruce and Batman-something the comics have ignored way too much.

    Was he Bat God in Batman the Animated Series? Static Shock? Justice League? Unless you mean the DVD movies which are based on the comics.
    In Justice League he defeated Sinestro, Amazo, Dr.Destiny, Amazons, Injustice Gang with ease.

    In the comics he struggles mightily against those guys, and often loses.

  4. #334
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    15,226

    Default

    BTAS generally did it right.

    JL was where we ran into issues. it was probably the least enjoyable DCAU Batman was, and this is including his future self as a crotchety old man.

  5. #335
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    5,193

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DurararaFTW View Post
    The Batman Who Laughs didn't have superstrength, superintelligence, superspeed or supertech or anything like that to start out with. He was Batman exactly as we have him now and went evil and crazy. This is what Snyder tells us he is capable of doing with it.



    There actually have been comics published after the 40s that depict him fighting crime in Gotham rather then taking on multiversal gods, you just need to know where to look for them.

    Going from this

    Attachment 99587

    to this

    Attachment 99588

    Is pretty clearly superhuman. They didn't need to do this to write this comic. They wanted to write this story though, and decided to do it with Batman. And also have the main villian be Batman. And also have the 6 evil henchman who each have their own tie-in comic be Batman. This really doesn't happen to anyone else in DC Comics.



    I'd argue Damian dying is something quite bad for Damian as well. Offering up bad things happening to Damian or Alfred or Dick or Tim as evidence that Bruce is the whipping boy of the batfamily as opposed to Damian or Alfred or Dick or Tim seems wrong. Bruce is Alfred's boy, Alfred has all but raised Dick as well. All the bad things that happen to them should be considered to make Alfred the whipping boy of the bat family by that same logic. Seeing Bruce suffer doesn't exactly leave Dick and the other cold either, they care a great deal. This logic doesn't get us anywhere.



    Batman was the vocal point in Final Crisis. He was as much the protagonist of Infinite Crisis as anyone else as well. Same with most new 52 events. It is difficult for him to be both the protagonist and have it be his powerset that is making the event happen like the Flash is Flashpoint or the Green Lantern in Darkest Night/Brightest Day but that's because he doesn't have any powers. That's not him being treated unfairly. If his peak human abilities are threatening the very fabric of the universe I don't think they should be described as peak human anymore, cause we definitely can't do that.
    Again.... just because he does play mostly at street level doesn’t mean that since the 50’s he hasn’t done fantastical stuff. Like I don’t know why you think he needs to fit in that box. Every character does things that are above and beyond simply because of plot. Superman built a deus ex machina machine. Flash started out pretty street level as well until they wrote stories where the speedforce made him a god. Hal Jordan once we rewrote the universe and even willed himself back to life. Far cry from fighting comical Sinestro in Coast City.

    Like that’s the nature of comics. Just because they did something doesn’t mean they always should. And if we are playing that game, Superman is far worse considering where he started out in the 40’s and where he went silver age and remained after.

    As far as event books you are completely reaching. In Final Crisis Batman did some investigating at the start, got captured, was tortured and cloned off panel and this wasn’t even depicted in the main event though the main writer was the current lead of the Bat books, and then he escaped, injured Darkseid and was killed. Meanwhile Superman and Barry Allen were more constant figures in the story. In Infinite Crisis Batman didn’t do anything that directly stopped Luthor’s plan or even assisted in the Super Boy Prime fight. Which were the two primary stories of Infinite Crisis. He was a in a side plot to stop Brother Eye and then in a big dumb battle vs the villains that again was subsequent to the actual main events.

    You have one story where he was never a key figure in any of the main plots and another where he was sidelined the whole story outside one development that in turn ended his placement in the story. He basically took the COIE Barry Allen role.... except that actually cut to Barry Allen once in awhile while he was captured. Meanwhile Wonder Woman has literally been protagonist the first two issues of Death Metal but that doesn’t count.

    Again it just sounds like you want him in a narrowly defined box to justify him not being part of big universal stories. Which is funny when the most popular character DC’s had in the last 40 years just in the last few years for an event and a sequel event

  6. #336
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    5,193

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Why was batman send back to the beginning of time? I am sure that doesn't happen often to "humans". Heck! You mentioned green arrow. That didn't happen to him(ugh! No thank you. I would prefer him protecting the little guy).Yeah! I know, i know we can come with some explanation in universe to build up nonsense.As said, the guy ain't human. Heck! I doubt even omega beams can kill the "human" .Dc has systematically given every avenue, genre, place.. Etc to batman. Batman can do time travel, space adventures, can fight magical Beasts, have bombastic action, street realistic level stories, is mecha, noir investigation stories... Etc. Is there anything left? . In fact, batman shouldn't be called batman anymore. Bruce wayne is superman for all intents and purposes. If you go buy the definitions that superman is the best and an all rounder who can do anything and everything . Just give the guy a big s symbol.At dc having no powers is a bigger superpower.
    When Superman started he was literally just a dude who could run fast, jump high, lift cars and break through some armored doors who only fought mad scientists or regular criminals. Around the same time Batman had zany adventures so did Superman. Batman was basically just Superman without power buffs when they were created. People should really read those stories before they just accept how one character evolved and get mad about how the other did.

    Also the irony of your post is that Batman got sent back in time because he was the only member of the Justice League that was actually captured by Darkseid and held against his will do when he escaped and infiltrated Darkseid base... he ran into a god who shot him through time.

  7. #337
    Mighty Member LifeIsILL's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,656

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Denkota View Post
    He was the one who Barbatos chose as a sacrifice due to his coming in his sights at the beginning of time or whatever. If it was green arrow then he would have been chosen as the sacrifice and we would have Dark Arrow where five arrows specially treated after wounding Ollie would have brought Barbatos to this world and would have got Arrowdoomssday, arrowaquaman and so on. It's not like Bruce specifically was chosen for anything special he had. The court could have treated anyone with the metals and called forth Barbatos. He didn't need a man dressed in a silly bat suit anymore than a man dressed like Robin Hood.
    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Why was batman send back to the beginning of time? I am sure that doesn't happen often to "humans". Heck! You mentioned green arrow. That didn't happen to him(ugh! No thank you. I would prefer him protecting the little guy).
    I already mentioned a few pages ago that Green Arrow has taken down superpowered aliens and Gods just like Batman.

    In fact, I think canon Green Arrow has killed more Gods than canon Batman.

    And Green Arrow has also defeated Darkseid before, just like Batman, but I never see anyone ever bringing that up. I think that moment happened so fast it just went over people's heads.

  8. #338
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    9,478

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    Again.... just because he does play mostly at street level doesn’t mean that since the 50’s he hasn’t done fantastical stuff. Like I don’t know why you think he needs to fit in that box. Every character does things that are above and beyond simply because of plot. Superman built a deus ex machina machine. Flash started out pretty street level as well until they wrote stories where the speedforce made him a god. Hal Jordan once we rewrote the universe and even willed himself back to life. Far cry from fighting comical Sinestro in Coast City.
    The difference is batman does this nonsense under the guise of being "human". Others aren't.Those guys are sold as superpowered individual . Batman is made out to be better than everyone just cause he is "human" and sold as such.When in fact the character is just another superpowered individual doing his ****. Moreover, batman's nonsense spills over to everything. It is designed in a way that jl is also his book and not a team book. Other guys nonsense doesn't spill over much. If superman sneeses a galaxy away. It happens in his book. In other books he comes back to be beaten by damage, kara, barry.. Etc. Barry same deal. When steps into some dc event he struggles againts catwoman and harley quinn. I know batman is all about nietzschean trappings. Then come out and take the ubermensch title. Stop selling him as a human. Its false advertising. Moreover, stop belittling other powered characters for being powered or aliens or making it out like they are lesser for being an "other" who doesn't have to struggle. It's another form of xenophobia and nothing else. It's just against characters. That's it. And in fact, the truth is batman is the one who doesn't need to struggle because he can pull stuff up from his belt by being just batman. Truth is, Batman isn't special for being human nor is he one.Batman being made out to be some kind of great underdog is just laughable at best.
    Quote Originally Posted by LifeIsILL View Post
    I already mentioned a few pages ago that Green Arrow has taken down superpowered aliens and Gods just like Batman.

    In fact, I think canon Green Arrow has killed more Gods than canon Batman.

    And Green Arrow has also defeated Darkseid before, just like Batman, but I never see anyone ever bringing that up. I think that moment happened so fast it just went over people's heads.
    Mate! green arrow having pis moments doesn't mean anything. The frequency of that and the way its done is wayyyy less in number vompared to batman.Batman's whole character and stories are just pis now, i. E "cause i am batman".i can still read green arrow without feeling the guy is a god.I am a sucker for old pulp heroes. For some reasons, the only character i could never get into was batman. Why? This is why. I like the goldenage stories just fine even with gun touting and all that. But, the character never felt human. Heck!superman had a better crux for me as the guy who fought for the weak and the oppressed as a working class dude.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 08-10-2020 at 08:38 AM.

  9. #339
    Astonishing Member DurararaFTW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    4,458

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    Again.... just because he does play mostly at street level doesn’t mean that since the 50’s he hasn’t done fantastical stuff. Like I don’t know why you think he needs to fit in that box. Every character does things that are above and beyond simply because of plot. Superman built a deus ex machina machine. Flash started out pretty street level as well until they wrote stories where the speedforce made him a god. Hal Jordan once we rewrote the universe and even willed himself back to life. Far cry from fighting comical Sinestro in Coast City.
    Whereever Superman and Flash started they aren't going back to that. Batman is. He is gonna keep going back to streetlevel stories, so when including him in events, take that into account and don't have him create armor and deage himself through the power of thought alone like the Dark Night: Metal. It's really not that hard.

    Like that’s the nature of comics. Just because they did something doesn’t mean they always should. And if we are playing that game, Superman is far worse considering where he started out in the 40’s and where he went silver age and remained after.
    Batman and Superman were still finding their niche in the 40s. It's been 80 years, this is no longer the case. People now have certain expectation of Batman and Superman. Making supernatural things happen to Bruce Wayne is just gonna be ignored because he will be in half a hundred comic coming out the following week where he will be written as human. Superman is not in the same boat.

    As far as event books you are completely reaching. In Final Crisis Batman did some investigating at the start, got captured, was tortured and cloned off panel and this wasn’t even depicted in the main event though the main writer was the current lead of the Bat books, and then he escaped, injured Darkseid and was killed. Meanwhile Superman and Barry Allen were more constant figures in the story.
    Darkseid's confrontation with Batman and what happened to Batman in that event is THE thing that happened in Final Crisis that everyone remembers.

    In Infinite Crisis Batman didn’t do anything that directly stopped Luthor’s plan or even assisted in the Super Boy Prime fight. Which were the two primary stories of Infinite Crisis. He was a in a side plot to stop Brother Eye and then in a big dumb battle vs the villains that again was subsequent to the actual main events.
    Whether you think the battles were dumb or not does not answer as to whether he was in the event comparatively little.

    You have one story where he was never a key figure in any of the main plots and another where he was sidelined the whole story outside one development that in turn ended his placement in the story. He basically took the COIE Barry Allen role.... except that actually cut to Barry Allen once in awhile while he was captured. Meanwhile Wonder Woman has literally been protagonist the first two issues of Death Metal but that doesn’t count.

    Again it just sounds like you want him in a narrowly defined box to justify him not being part of big universal stories. Which is funny when the most popular character DC’s had in the last 40 years just in the last few years for an event and a sequel event
    I'm not saying Wonder Woman being protagonist doesn't count but Batman in the main antagonist. And the secondary antagonist and third and so on. And also still in a major supporting role to Wonder Woman. That doesn't happen to Wonder Woman ever. Or Barry Allen or Superman. Yet for Batman, it's the second time it's happened.

    This would overexpose ANY character, but it's happening to Batman and despite what you might think Batman actually appears quite a bit in DC stuff already, and will continue to do so in whatever comes next.

  10. #340
    Mighty Member LifeIsILL's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,656

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post

    Mate! green arrow having pis moments doesn't mean anything. The frequency of that and the way its done is wayyyy less in number vompared to batman.Batman's whole character and stories are just pis now, i. E "cause i am batman".i can still read green arrow without feeling the guy is a god.I am a sucker for old pulp heroes. For some reasons, the only character i could never get into was batman. Why? This is why. I like the goldenage stories just fine even with gun touting and all that. But, the character never felt human. Heck!superman had a better crux for me as the guy who fought for the weak and the oppressed as a working class dude.
    It might be less now but there was a time when Green Arrow was having "Arrow-God" moments just as much, if not more than Batman. He was in the Justice League comics just as much as Batman was, and he was also in a bunch of Green Lantern comics, where he was doing nothing but taking out super-powered aliens. The only difference is that when Batman takes out Darkseid, it's a 2-page spread and every comic book site covers it. But when Green Arrow does it, it's just a panel and everyone forgets about it.

  11. #341
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    167

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Why was batman send back to the beginning of time? I am sure that doesn't happen often to "humans". Heck! You mentioned green arrow. That didn't happen to him(ugh! No thank you. I would prefer him protecting the little guy).Yeah! I know, i know we can come with some explanation in universe to build up nonsense.As said, the guy ain't human. Heck! I doubt even omega beams can kill the "human" .Dc has systematically given every avenue, genre, place.. Etc to batman. Batman can do time travel, space adventures, can fight magical Beasts, have bombastic action, street realistic level stories, is mecha, noir investigation stories... Etc. Is there anything left? . In fact, batman shouldn't be called batman anymore. Bruce wayne is superman for all intents and purposes. If you go buy the definitions that superman is the best and an all rounder who can do anything and everything . Just give the guy a big s symbol.At dc having no powers is a bigger superpower.
    It seems you didn't get that I was jesting about arrow. He probably would have been killed by the journey not making even a single jump given his hot headed dumb nature . Anyway that's beside the point. You see how many convoluted hoops the writers had to jump through to bring about this event? Grant Morrison has to adapt the Barbatos storyline and fit it into the final crisis narrative and Snyder had to retcon it further and add his mythos to make the story work and all this had to be done precisely because he doesn't have powers and has to be dependent on such shenanigans so that he may be involved in such storylines and he hasn't covered himself in glory even in such storylines as he is shown as usual to be a paranoid ass who brings about the crisis by trying to circumvent it. Even then Barbatos discards him afterwards like a used toy and sets sight on Superman who was actually going to provide the power to activate the trans dimensional swap. It may seem like he is being pushed and is a formidable beyond human heroic figure but he remains in reality a fragile figure who gets duped by higher powers and becomes their unwitting pawn.

  12. #342
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    5,193

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DurararaFTW View Post
    Whereever Superman and Flash started they aren't going back to that. Batman is. He is gonna keep going back to streetlevel stories, so when including him in events, take that into account and don't have him create armor and deage himself through the power of thought alone like the Dark Night: Metal. It's really not that hard.



    Batman and Superman were still finding their niche in the 40s. It's been 80 years, this is no longer the case. People now have certain expectation of Batman and Superman. Making supernatural things happen to Bruce Wayne is just gonna be ignored because he will be in half a hundred comic coming out the following week where he will be written as human. Superman is not in the same boat.



    Darkseid's confrontation with Batman and what happened to Batman in that event is THE thing that happened in Final Crisis that everyone remembers.



    Whether you think the battles were dumb or not does not answer as to whether he was in the event comparatively little.



    I'm not saying Wonder Woman being protagonist doesn't count but Batman in the main antagonist. And the secondary antagonist and third and so on. And also still in a major supporting role to Wonder Woman. That doesn't happen to Wonder Woman ever. Or Barry Allen or Superman. Yet for Batman, it's the second time it's happened.

    This would overexpose ANY character, but it's happening to Batman and despite what you might think Batman actually appears quite a bit in DC stuff already, and will continue to do so in whatever comes next.
    Yeah he’s going to go back to steel level and then he’s going to go back to being in more science fiction stories. Just like GL can go traveling around the universe and trippy cosmic adventures then go pal around with Green Arrow. It’s a consistent dynamic with character. After 60 years it’s silly to complain that it’s out of place, unless it’s a guise to get him out of those stories. Maybe Superman should stick to a Metropolis because space is for the GL’s. This has always existed with the character even before he was the top dog at DC. In the 70’s he’d fight Joker one week then deal with Ra’s ressurecting himself and trying to destroy the world, then pal around with Superman on some cosmic adventure, then fight Manbat. You are complaining about a consistent dynamic that has existed longer than you’ve probably been alive.

    You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Batman was not a focal point of Final Crisis. He was captured and died and got one good shot off in the bad guy. Nobody would say COIE is a Flash centric story got roughly the same role. In fact Final Crisis literally had Superman being told the entire universe was centralized around him. This is where you lose all credibility with me on this topic because nobody who read that story would ever describe it as a Batman story or even a Batman centric story. Batman has one mee were notable scene in the middle that removes him from the book after being missing most of the book.

    And again the two Metal crossovers are the only company wide events that were Batman focused. In 80 years Superman’s led nearly every event, WW has gotten events like Battle of the Gods, Flash and GL has as well. I really don’t find it valid to say that the most popular character finally getting one (and he’s not even the protagonist of the sequel) is really that big of a deal. You’re complaining about something every other character has gotten already

  13. #343
    Astonishing Member DurararaFTW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    4,458

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    Yeah he’s going to go back to steel level and then he’s going to go back to being in more science fiction stories. Just like GL can go traveling around the universe and trippy cosmic adventures then go pal around with Green Arrow. It’s a consistent dynamic with character.
    Green Lantern really REALLY doesn't do that as often as you think. If Green Lantern fights a streetthug ones a year it's a marvel. Batman switches between Justice League and detective stories multiple times every single month.

    After 60 years it’s silly to complain that it’s out of place, unless it’s a guise to get him out of those stories. Maybe Superman should stick to a Metropolis because space is for the GL’s. This has always existed with the character even before he was the top dog at DC. In the 70’s he’d fight Joker one week then deal with Ra’s ressurecting himself and trying to destroy the world, then pal around with Superman on some cosmic adventure, then fight Manbat. You are complaining about a consistent dynamic that has existed longer than you’ve probably been alive.
    I'm not saying he shouldn't be involved. The parts that require him to have actual superpowers personally, like he did in Dark Nights: Metal are better left to characters that are more free for this experience to effect their character. Like, I dunno, literally every single DC character that is not Batman.

    You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Batman was not a focal point of Final Crisis. He was captured and died and got one good shot off in the bad guy. Nobody would say COIE is a Flash centric story got roughly the same role. In fact Final Crisis literally had Superman being told the entire universe was centralized around him. This is where you lose all credibility with me on this topic because nobody who read that story would ever describe it as a Batman story or even a Batman centric story. Batman has one mee were notable scene in the middle that removes him from the book after being missing most of the book.
    If you asked someone to say what happened in Crisis of Infinite Earth in one or two sentences Flash is the only character that would be brought up. The thing most paid attention to in that event or focal point is Flash's death, ditto Batman's death in Final Crisis. I would not describe it as Flash centric story for that, no.

    And again the two Metal crossovers are the only company wide events that were Batman focused. In 80 years Superman’s led nearly every event, WW has gotten events like Battle of the Gods, Flash and GL has as well. I really don’t find it valid to say that the most popular character finally getting one (and he’s not even the protagonist of the sequel) is really that big of a deal. You’re complaining about something every other character has gotten already
    Can we stop pretending that Batfamily crossovers don't exist now? Cause they do. Batman has a huge crossover event where he is the hero every year. And he participates in events as a Justice League member every year, not exactly in background either. This year he's in multiple batfamily events, and in the big linewide crossover playing every single part other then protagonist. Ditto the year before last. No, it really isn't something every other character has gotten already.

  14. #344
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    5,193

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DurararaFTW View Post
    Green Lantern really REALLY doesn't do that as often as you think. If Green Lantern fights a streetthug ones a year it's a marvel. Batman switches between Justice League and detective stories multiple times every single month.



    I'm not saying he shouldn't be involved. The parts that require him to have actual superpowers personally, like he did in Dark Nights: Metal are better left to characters that are more free for this experience to effect their character. Like, I dunno, literally every single DC character that is not Batman.



    If you asked someone to say what happened in Crisis of Infinite Earth in one or two sentences Flash is the only character that would be brought up. The thing most paid attention to in that event or focal point is Flash's death, ditto Batman's death in Final Crisis. I would not describe it as Flash centric story for that, no.



    Can we stop pretending that Batfamily crossovers don't exist now? Cause they do. Batman has a huge crossover event where he is the hero every year. And he participates in events as a Justice League member every year, not exactly in background either. This year he's in multiple batfamily events, and in the big linewide crossover playing every single part other then protagonist. Ditto the year before last. No, it really isn't something every other character has gotten already.
    If someone discussed COIE they would have to describe it like “the Anti Monitor is trying to destroy the universe, the Monitor rounds up a bunch of heroes, Supergirl and Flash both die buying everyone time to stop him, all but a few worlds are destroyed and they are merged, it ends with Superman from Earth 2 going off to defeat the Anti Monitor in a last stand”. Flash’s role is literally just to describe two of the most important deaths. Supergirl dying is just as big if not more referenced. Nobody would call it a Flash centric story.

    If you discussed Final Crisis the story is “Orion is found dead, it is discovered the New Gods of Apokilips are infiltrating Earth and attacking the heroes. Superman is distracted and taken out of action to go on a crazy adventure where he discovers an evil monitor and does some **** with the Legion and learns a bunch of things about how to prevent what’s going on. Darkseid takes over the world and there is a standoff where Batman and Flash wound him where one character is presumed dead and one has returned from being presumed dead, then as reality is falling apart Superman defeats Darkseid once and for all, builds a machine to save the world, and then the evil Monitor Returns and an army of Supermen and the GLC defeat him to cap the story.

    It’s so ridiculous to say in either case that Flash or Batman are the most relevant and notable parts of the story. I can’t justify bringing up Batman without bringing up Flash and Superman and the GLC. Both stories are more dependent on the villains.

    And again calling a story like No Man’s Land a crossover as it only effects the Bat line is no different then calling War of the Green Lanterns or Last Stand of New Krypton crossovers. They are central to a subset of books centralized around one hero and hardly effect the rest of the company.

    Metal is the only event Batman has had that is comparable to any of the Crisis, War of the Gods, Blackest Night, Flashpoint, or Doomsday Clock. DC’s been having major events since 1985 with Crisis and it took until 2017 for Batman to get one, after literally every major Justice League member but Aquaman had one. Hell Hal Jordan was the main villain and figure of two in the 90’s and then then main hero of Blackest Night and he missed like a decade of print in between.

  15. #345
    Astonishing Member DurararaFTW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    4,458

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    If someone discussed COIE they would have to describe it like “the Anti Monitor is trying to destroy the universe, the Monitor rounds up a bunch of heroes, Supergirl and Flash both die buying everyone time to stop him, all but a few worlds are destroyed and they are merged, it ends with Superman from Earth 2 going off to defeat the Anti Monitor in a last stand”. Flash’s role is literally just to describe two of the most important deaths. Supergirl dying is just as big if not more referenced. Nobody would call it a Flash centric story.

    If you discussed Final Crisis the story is “Orion is found dead, it is discovered the New Gods of Apokilips are infiltrating Earth and attacking the heroes. Superman is distracted and taken out of action to go on a crazy adventure where he discovers an evil monitor and does some **** with the Legion and learns a bunch of things about how to prevent what’s going on. Darkseid takes over the world and there is a standoff where Batman and Flash wound him where one character is presumed dead and one has returned from being presumed dead, then as reality is falling apart Superman defeats Darkseid once and for all, builds a machine to save the world, and then the evil Monitor Returns and an army of Supermen and the GLC defeat him to cap the story.

    It’s so ridiculous to say in either case that Flash or Batman are the most relevant and notable parts of the story. I can’t justify bringing up Batman without bringing up Flash and Superman and the GLC. Both stories are more dependent on the villains.
    What happened to the multiverse or Supergirl didn't stick, what happened to Barry Allen stuck for a long time. It's natural to see it as the most relevant part when it's the part DC tried to hardest to respect in the decades afterwards. Likewise Bruce Wayne not being around for a while is a much bigger deal then Darkseid not being around for a while, Darkseid isn't around that often anyway. Knowing what happened to Batman is the big reason to read Final Crisis.

    And again calling a story like No Man’s Land a crossover as it only effects the Bat line is no different then calling War of the Green Lanterns or Last Stand of New Krypton crossovers. They are central to a subset of books centralized around one hero and hardly effect the rest of the company.

    Metal is the only event Batman has had that is comparable to any of the Crisis, War of the Gods, Blackest Night, Flashpoint, or Doomsday Clock. DC’s been having major events since 1985 with Crisis and it took until 2017 for Batman to get one, after literally every major Justice League member but Aquaman had one. Hell Hal Jordan was the main villain and figure of two in the 90’s and then then main hero of Blackest Night and he missed like a decade of print in between.
    Actually compare No Man's Land to the likes of Darkest Night and Zero Hour for a moment.

    https://comicbookreadingorders.com/d...reading-order/

    https://comicbookreadingorders.com/d...reading-order/

    https://comicbookreadingorders.com/d...reading-order/

    Saying it just effects the bat line books is like saying it just effects the northern hemisphere. Bat line by the new 52 includes the Teen Titans, Suicide Squad and Bird of Prey, along with a host of ongoings for solo characters and several different ongoings for Batman himself Green Lantern is one or two books at this point. Even at Green Lantern height it was never as big as the bat line, not even close. Same for the super line. Do Green Lantern events, the book about the force of intergalactic spacecops generally have a wider scope then the events about a caped detective in a city, yes. So what.

    Also again, Joker's Last Laugh did happen. It is not a superman story.

    https://comicbookreadingorders.com/d...reading-order/
    Last edited by DurararaFTW; 08-10-2020 at 04:05 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •