Why having the universe revolve around Batman is a problem.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

To be fair,sucess in other media doesnt always translate to a successful comic book run.Which is why you dont just throw a ongoing at him and hope that it doesnt tank.

I mean, Marvel literally gave Killmonger and Shuri their own miniseries after the Black Panther movie came out and Guardians of the Galaxy is now a huge title for them, which it wasn't before. So, I'd say giving Black Lightning an ongoing is not out of the question.

[The Darknight Detective]

To be fair,sucess in other media doesnt always translate to a successful comic book run.Which is why you dont just throw a ongoing at him and hope that it doesnt tank.

Yes, the demographics for movies and TV are very different compared to comics. For example, women and African-Americans are far more plentiful as consumers of the former than the latter.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Yes, the demographics for movies and TV are very different compared to comics. For example, women and African-Americans are far more plentiful as consumers of the former than the latter.

Well, while still not the majority, women actually do make up almost 40% of the comic-buying audience, 37% to be exact. And that number comes from 2017 so the percentage might have actually grown since then. So, again, while not the majority, that's still a very sizeable chunk of the consumer base.

That same report also shows that at least 30% of the comic-buying market is non-white.

[Aahz]

I mean, Marvel literally gave Killmonger and Shuri their own miniseries after the Black Panther movie came out and Guardians of the Galaxy is now a huge title for them, which it wasn't before. So, I'd say giving Black Lightning an ongoing is not out of the question.

He got a mini when the TV series started, and it didn't do that well.

The Killmonger and Shuri minis were iirc also not that successfull. Same goes for basically all of the characters from the DC-CW and Marvel-Netflix shows, the ones that could hold an ongoing, were the ones that already had long running ongoings before the show started, and no of them sold (at least on the long run) significantly better then before the show.

Guardians of the Galaxy is one of the very few examples were the success in other media translated into sales.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

He got a mini when the TV series started, and it didn't do that well.

The Killmonger and Shuri minis were iirc also not that successfull. Same goes for basically all of the characters from the DC-CW and Marvel-Netflix shows, the ones that could hold an ongoing, were the ones that already had long running ongoings before the show started, and no of them sold (at least on the long run) significantly better then before the show.

Guardians of the Galaxy is one of the very few examples were the success in other media translated into sales.

But they still took the chance with them. That is the point. They didn't let the fear that "oh, these might not do that well" stop them from actually releasing those titles. Marvel has proven in recent years that it's willing to give its lower-tier characters the chance to attract an audience and, yeah, that's partly because their profile's been heightened by the MCU and it might not always sell well, but in the long run it works out better for them. It makes their universe more diverse and therefore, more interesting.

And why are we assuming then that a Black Lightning title wouldn't be more like Guardians of the Galaxy than Killmonger/Shuri?

[Konja7]

But they still took the chance with them. That is the point. They didn't let the fear that "oh, these might not do that well" stop them from actually releasing those titles. Marvel has proven in recent years that it's willing to give its lower-tier characters the chance to attract an audience and, yeah, that's partly because their profile's been heightened by the MCU and it might not always sell well, but in the long run it works out better for them. It makes their universe more diverse and therefore, more interesting.

And why are we assuming then that a Black Lightning title wouldn't be more like Guardians of the Galaxy than Killmonger/Shuri?

Black Lightning has a mi ni, so they give Black Lightning a chance. The character will likely has a ongoing if the mini sells better.

Honestly, Batman and the Outside existed to push Black Lightning (and other characters) using Batman name to boost sales, since Batman is a supporting character in that book. It doesn't work.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Black Lightning has a mi ni, so they give Black Lightning a chance. The character will likely has a ongoing if the mini sells better.

Honestly, Batman and the Outside existed to push Black Lightning (and other characters) using Batman name to boost sales, since Batman is a supporting character in that book. It doesn't work.

Lol, not much of a chance. I mean, did the mini-series have A-list talent on it? What did the promotion look like? Btw, I know the answers to both those questions.

Also, I've made this point, but when you slap the Batman name on something, it's not an automatic guarantee of sales. As you said, Batman and the Outsiders, as a title, doesn't sell well despite featuring Batman and Batman supporting characters. And let's be clear, though, Batman & the Outsiders was not launched to promote BL. It was launched to promote all of the Dark Knights: Metal stuff and spun out of that. And this might actually be a case where the Batman name hurts instead of helps the title. Because, if people already get their Batman fix by reading the main Batman title and/or Detective Comics, why should they care about yet another Batman title that DC doesn't even really seem to care about?

It's basically like choosing between restaurants: would you rather go to a restaurant that serves like 90% steak, even if the steak is really good or would you want to try out the place that serves not only steak but also Thai food, Mexican food, seafood, and more and its all good.

[Aahz]

I mean, did the mini-series have A-list talent on it?

They got the original creator to write the book, so you got pretty much the original version of the character.
If that's not something people find appealing, then why do a Black Lightning book?

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

They got the original creator to write the book, so you got pretty much the original version of the character.
If that's not something people find appealing, then why do a Black Lightning book?

Dude. I think you know what I meant and you know that this is not that. Not saying that Tony Isabella isn’t a great writer, but if this book had been attached to Scott Snyder or Jonathan Hickman or even an up-and-comer like Donny Cates, it probably would have done much better sales-wise. However, we both know that DC tends more often than not to push any hot, up-and-coming talent they get to the Bat-line.

Also, it wasn’t the original version of the character because it erased his entire backstory and supporting cast. Like his daughters, who are major players in the show.

[The Darknight Detective]

Well, while still not the majority, women actually do make up almost 40% of the comic-buying audience, 37% to be exact. And that number comes from 2017 so the percentage might have actually grown since then. So, again, while not the majority, that's still a very sizeable chunk of the consumer base.

That same report also shows that at least 30% of the comic-buying market is non-white.

Wasn't that report reflecting those who like superheroes or CB stories in movies, TV, and elsewhere, but not specifically as purchasers of comics themselves?

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Wasn't that report reflecting those who like superheroes or CB stories in movies, TV, and elsewhere, but not specifically as purchasers of comics themselves?

No. The article I linked literally says that it’s referring to those people who buy comics.

[The Darknight Detective]

No. The article I linked literally says that it’s referring to those people who buy comics.

I apologize for not noticing your link, since it didn't show up as one on my computer initially.

According to the report, women only account for 22% of superhero comics, FWIW.

[K. Jones]

I've been thinking about this a lot lately, the universe revolving around Batman aspect of things. Especially right now in the early thick of Death Metal. And honestly ... I think Metal and Death Metal are a treatise, a commentary on the fact that it SHOULDN'T revolve around Batman but that it has. I somewhat respect Snyder as a writer, he's an idea man and a worker to be sure, for all my critiques of his -isms, but man I really believe more and more every day (still can't fully tell) that this is all Parody - parody that takes itself deadly seriously - of that whole concept of Batman Center of the Universe.

Like look at the dopey, silly extremes we're going to with that concept, decentralizing it, divorcing it from any groundedness to the point where we have the living incarnation of an over-saturated hype character (BMWL) fusing with a sort of profane untouchable character concept (Batmanhattan) and just going full tilt "look at me I'm evil and my end goal is to be the only thing left in the universe). Obviously ad infinitum because of the explosion of daffy Dark Multiverse Batmen. These characters are all so evil and so profane that there's frankly no real stakes, they are caricatures of the concept of villainy or grimdark. Cartoon characters creating a Cartoon Crisis.

After all that, the secretive cultish Court of Owls worshipped dopey Cartoon Concepts. All the secretive metal substances lurking in the Earth and veining through the DCU's history are all Cartoon-Ink-Goo akin to the fiendish plot of Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

And for that reason I actually rather like it! When I felt like Snyder's stories were taking themselves seriously I critiqued so hard but now that I realize that it's a spoof I love it. A very inclusive, let's just play with every DC concept I can remember, spoof. I've criticized the sort of replay (to be fair, honest "remix") of Morrison concepts particularly, but when you read them and feel the existential dread, horror and grounded real world fears of Morrison's run but then put all of Snyder's together and get none of that gravitas, you realize that this is like the "Weird Al Yankovich" album that comes out and goofs on all the Morrison Songs.

Probably since Batman: TAS was used to launch Superman/JL/JLU, the experience of a Batman-centric universe has been growing. So from the Early 90s and at the same rate that let's say, the Batman Editorial Group increased Batman-Related titles overtaking his share of the DCU sales. This feels like it's making fun of that at this point. You want Batman Everything? YOU GOT IT! Let's see how this looks!

[The tall man]

I've been thinking about this a lot lately, the universe revolving around Batman aspect of things. Especially right now in the early thick of Death Metal. And honestly ... I think Metal and Death Metal are a treatise, a commentary on the fact that it SHOULDN'T revolve around Batman but that it has. I somewhat respect Snyder as a writer, he's an idea man and a worker to be sure, for all my critiques of his -isms, but man I really believe more and more every day (still can't fully tell) that this is all Parody - parody that takes itself deadly seriously - of that whole concept of Batman Center of the Universe.

Like look at the dopey, silly extremes we're going to with that concept, decentralizing it, divorcing it from any groundedness to the point where we have the living incarnation of an over-saturated hype character (BMWL) fusing with a sort of profane untouchable character concept (Batmanhattan) and just going full tilt "look at me I'm evil and my end goal is to be the only thing left in the universe). Obviously ad infinitum because of the explosion of daffy Dark Multiverse Batmen. These characters are all so evil and so profane that there's frankly no real stakes, they are caricatures of the concept of villainy or grimdark. Cartoon characters creating a Cartoon Crisis.

After all that, the secretive cultish Court of Owls worshipped dopey Cartoon Concepts. All the secretive metal substances lurking in the Earth and veining through the DCU's history are all Cartoon-Ink-Goo akin to the fiendish plot of Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

And for that reason I actually rather like it! When I felt like Snyder's stories were taking themselves seriously I critiqued so hard but now that I realize that it's a spoof I love it. A very inclusive, let's just play with every DC concept I can remember, spoof. I've criticized the sort of replay (to be fair, honest "remix") of Morrison concepts particularly, but when you read them and feel the existential dread, horror and grounded real world fears of Morrison's run but then put all of Snyder's together and get none of that gravitas, you realize that this is like the "Weird Al Yankovich" album that comes out and goofs on all the Morrison Songs.

Probably since Batman: TAS was used to launch Superman/JL/JLU, the experience of a Batman-centric universe has been growing. So from the Early 90s and at the same rate that let's say, the Batman Editorial Group increased Batman-Related titles overtaking his share of the DCU sales. This feels like it's making fun of that at this point. You want Batman Everything? YOU GOT IT! Let's see how this looks!

Yes the first Metal event was built as Batman focused but Wonder Woman and Hawk Girl ended up being the heroes while Batman was trapped and practically broken. This new Dark Metal event is Wonder Woman focused and Doomsday Clock was Superman focused. So despite what some may think the DC Universe does not revolve around Batman. As far as other characters, this myth persists that they are not utilized but DC gives them books and very few people buy them. New titles are always announced and they are met with derision and scorn. How many posters say "no one asked for this book" or "hard pass", DC tries something new and people/readers immediately criticize, be it the cast, the premise, the creative team or whatever else. It costs money to put out a book, and then its not supported so DC loses money on the book and its swiftly canceled. Then people start to complain despite not supporting the book at all and look to blame Batman because his fans support his books; it's crazy. Batman is the easy target, he is DC's biggest most popular character so he gets all the hate and blame for other characters not getting any shine. And that's fine, his fans will continue to support him and his books and therefore DC will continue to put out more Batman content because they see he sells. And threads like this one will continue to be created because some will always be upset that Batman is front and center, even though they do nothing or little to change that reality; like support other titles when DC puts them out. But they won't so nothing will change and then they will complain, rinse and repeat.

[SpideyCeo]

How many books is batman over other heroes as the guy whos mainly the most important to see do all the things that make him either cool, a chad or a sane voice to the audience.