Why having the universe revolve around Batman is a problem.

[SiegePerilous02]

But is that smart business? Giving franchises that don't sell chance after chance seems like Marvel's way of patting it's self on the back. "Unlike DC we give unpopular characters multiple chances at their own titles!" This isn't a charity, if you run a restaurant and your vegan dishes don't sell as well as the non vegan one's maybe you should have less vegan meals on the menu.

Btw I'm not saying you shouldn't give less popular characters chances but after awhile if you see they sell less than more popular characters maybe it's smarter to spotlight them in other ways, like team books, if they aren't strong enough draws on their own.

Doesn't Marvel almost consistently do better than DC? In both the dying medium of monthly comics and more importantly in films currently where they built a hugely successful cinematic universe made up almost entirely of relative B and C listers?

They kind of deserve to pat themselves on the back. And how many chances are these less popular characters really getting? And not even the really obscure ones either.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Doesn't Marvel almost consistently do better than DC? In both the dying medium of monthly comics and more importantly in films currently where they built a hugely successful cinematic universe made up almost entirely of relative B and C listers?

They kind of deserve to pat themselves on the back. And how many chances are these less popular characters really getting? And not even the really obscure ones either.

Spider-Man and X-Men are almost consistently the big winners for Marvel every year. Maybe there is an Avengers event or something that breaks in, but they have their bread and butter too. Take away the Spider books and DC wins

[Rise]

Doesn't Marvel almost consistently do better than DC? In both the dying medium of monthly comics and more importantly in films currently where they built a hugely successful cinematic universe made up almost entirely of relative B and C listers?

They kind of deserve to pat themselves on the back. And how many chances are these less popular characters really getting? And not even the really obscure ones either.

Joker is the most profitable superhero movie of all time and DC has a bigger revenue in comics.

I don't know why you people have a weird idolization with Marvel. They were able to have a successful movie franchise thanks to Disney which is good for them, but their comic division is a freaking joke. DC for all their faults are far more competent than they are.

[Noodle]

They were able to have a successful movie franchise thanks to Disney which is good for them,

Disney didn't acquire them until the first Avengers movie, which was already in production before then. Did Disney help make their movie franchise bigger? Yes. But it would have still been successful had Disney not bought them.

[Rise]

MCU studio becoming a thing was thanks to Disney which was my point. Does this mean that they are the only one capable of making good and successful superhero movies? Heck no nor I was implying that.

[Sacred Knight]

Joker is the most profitable superhero movie of all time and DC has a bigger revenue in comics.

I don't know why you people have a weird idolization with Marvel. They were able to have a successful movie franchise thanks to Disney which is good for them, but their comic division is a freaking joke. DC for all their faults are far more competent than they are.

Its not a weird idolization. I'll take DC characters ten times out of ten over Marvel. Always have and always will, they just appeal to me more. But outside of sparse and brief outliers, Marvel does their business better. This has been evident to anyone involved in or a fan of comics since the 60s when they blew up and never really let go. Doesn't mean I prefer DC any less, its not being a fanboy to acknowledge it though, as I wouldn't qualify as a Marvel fanboy in any facet. I don't even care for most of movies, but they've proven more adept at crafting a connected universe than DC has. Which is an understatement. DC is better at disconnected movies, and if Joker is any indication, more non-superhero fare (its not a superhero film, its a psychological thriller utilizing some comic names). And this is fine, if that's what works its what works. But in terms of superheroes in the movies, I'd be hard pressed to consider it up for any debate that Marvel doesn't do it better.

[Noodle]

MCU studio becoming a thing was thanks to Disney which was my point. Does this mean that they are the only one capable of making good and successful superhero movies? Heck no nor I was implying that.

Marvel Studios started in 1996, long before the Disney buyout. All Disney did was add their skill set to something that was already existing.

[Rise]

Its not a weird idolization. I'll take DC characters ten times out of ten over Marvel. Always have and always will, they just appeal to me more. But outside of sparse and brief outliers, Marvel does their business better. This has been evident to anyone involved in or a fan of comics since the 60s when they blew up and never really let go. Doesn't mean I prefer DC any less, its not being a fanboy to acknowledge it though.

Sure, this is why they tried to bury the X-Men because they didn't have rights and tried to push the Inhuman hard just to suddenly pretend that they don't exist later. Flood the industry and overship their books just to pretend that they are doing well sales wise. Through a shade every chance they got at DC like the recent blank WEDNESDAY covers they made which rightfully pissed off the retailers. They are just few examples out of many about how pitful and incompetent they are.

Edit: to Noodle, did you miss the MCU part?

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

MCU studio becoming a thing was thanks to Disney which was my point. Does this mean that they are the only one capable of making good and successful superhero movies? Heck no nor I was implying that.

No they aren’t but DC’s problem is they are bad at making films, not that they don’t try enough characters

[Noodle]

Edit: to Noodle, did you miss the MCU part?

MCU Studios doesn't exist. It's Marvel Studios. And Disney didn't absorb Marvel Studios into Walt Disney Studios until 2015. The Marvel movies were already a success before then.

[SiegePerilous02]

Joker is the most profitable superhero movie of all time and DC has a bigger revenue in comics.

I don't know why you people have a weird idolization with Marvel. They were able to have a successful movie franchise thanks to Disney which is good for them, but their comic division is a freaking joke. DC for all their faults are far more competent than they are.

Nice projection. One doesn't have to idolize Marvel or even like the MCU (I vastly prefer DC) to point out that their movies as a whole do better with more variety of characters.

They aren't the only ones capable of doing it, it's just that their main competition (WB) is hardly consistent with their output.

[Sacred Knight]

Sure, this is why they tried to bury the X-Men because they didn't have rights and tried to push the Inhuman hard just to suddenly pretend that they don't exist later. Flood the industry and overship their books just to pretend that they are doing well sales wise. Through a shade every chance they got at DC like the recent blank WEDNESDAY covers they made which rightfully pissed off the retailers. They are just few examples out of many about how pitful and incompetent they are.

Edit: to Noodle, did you miss the MCU part?

I never said nor implied they haven't ever made a single mistake.

[Güicho]

The WB movie Universe problem wasn't that they focused to much on Batman films, it's that they didn't hinge it on Batman enough. LOL!
It's that they failed to share their incredibly successful Batman franchise as the foundation of their entire DCU that doomed them.

While Marvel hinged their Universe on Iron-Man, revealed by end to be part of a (from then on) ever expanding U.
Marvel could then throw anything out there, as part of that same expanding U, the audience already loved, so more moderate characters could all reap the benefit.
While DC/WB continued oblivious on how to even begin or approach it.

There was this decided ignorant stance, that the "fans" mindlessly gobbled up and parroted, that the successful Nolan films were by nature decidedly separate from any potential expanding DC movie U.
And that lack of vision and foresight, and fandom mindlessly agreeing and parroting the same, was the beginning of their failure.

Bale should have been contracted for further expansion films (no mater the cost). And their stance that the world's don't "fit", is exactly the narrative approach that would have sold the films, and character.
That's the exact reaction Batman should have had, forced to contend with the revelation of a world and beings that don't "fit" his reality.
His eschew to this foreign element and intrusion to "his" pov, his city, his world, would have been true to the character, and is the exact story that what would have sold it all.

[skyvolt2000]

Sure, this is why they tried to bury the X-Men because they didn't have rights and tried to push the Inhuman hard just to suddenly pretend that they don't exist later. .

Unlike Wally West, Stephanie Brown, Cassandra Cain and half of the Fantastic Four-the X-Men STILL APPEARED IN BOOKS. Let NOT try to rewrite history-we got a toxic fandom doing that now.

Flood the industry and overship their books just to pretend that they are doing well sales wise.

You mean the books that while SOME did not do well in the bias direct market-had success as trades everywhere else? Some of those trades have kicked DC books around including Batman's at various times.

Oh lets not PRETEND DC does OVERSHIP books. They are just as guilty. As is Dynamite, IDW, Image and Valiant.

Through a shade every chance they got at DC like the recent blank WEDNESDAY covers they made which rightfully pissed off the retailers.

You mean the uneducated fanboys who run businesses and yet can't comprehend simple LOGIC? Like don't order books that you think won't sell? Because every single thing in that comic book store is there because the OWNER not a major corporation decides it?

So for any store owner to WHINE about unsold Moon Girl books is on THEM not Marvel. FUNNY these owners have zero complaints about the larger unsold piles of Batman, Superman, Flash, Hal and YES X-Men books that leave huge piles of unsold books. That get tossed in bins or grab bags.

Retailers have themselves to blame. Funny they can find SELF control when it comes to Zombie Tramp or Cave Woman who average 6 variants a month. Funny that can NOT order Savage Dragon but claim Marvel (and DC) BULLIES them to buy a ton of books.

their comic division is a freaking joke.

A joke to who??? Not the gators or folks who haven't bought a Marvel book in years. You do understand the comic division is MORE than the Direct market. It's tv, movies, toys and merchandise.
Peter Parker has HOW MANY BOOKS? Yet folks will scream Miles is taking over with his ONE.
How does unsold books of Ms Marvel or Moon Girl KILL a comic book store when Peter Parker and Batman have $1 bins just for THEIR books?

They are just few examples out of many about how pitful and incompetent they are

No one is saying Marvel is perfect. Because they are NOT. The issue is why is their trash more successful than DC's so-called best.
John Stewart should have wiped the floor with Black Panther years ago. Yet who is in better shape?
Cassandra Cain should wipe the floor with Ms Marvel but it's Ms Marvel who will bypass her with solos issues in October.
Dc's INCOMPETENCE has given Marvel advantages.
We throw as many fits as we want about Squirrel Girl but she has over 20 trades and 3 OGNs. Star Girl doesn't. Vixen doesn't. And BOTH are better than her. That is the issue.

[Crossfist]

Why "should" Jon Stewart and Cassandra Cain be doing better than BP and Ms Marvel? Is there something about them that's inherently better? Genuine question.