Why having the universe revolve around Batman is a problem.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Wb seriously doesn't care for the superman ip other than as an antagonist or sidecharacter to the batman. Superman being "what batman is not" has killed the franchise.

Superman being Batman's opposite is what makes him work, it's just that WB has fumbled that in the movies side so much so Cavill's been in limbo and without a solo movie since B vs S. He's been in Batman's shadow more often not, which has only hurt him. On tv he's slowly been making a comeback on the CW, and he's about to get his own live action show again. He hasn't had a solo cartoon since Superman TAS, which ended 20 years years ago!

[manwhohaseverything]

Superman being Batman's opposite is what makes him work

No, superman wasn't meant to be batman's anything. Superman was it's own thing. He fought the corrupt, scared the bullie and corrupt, saved defenceless , lead them, inspired them.. Etc.This and savior nonsense started later. Superman as flying moral paragon sucks for me. Captain marvel was the true flying paragon. He had taken the essence of gods. Superman is a strongman from space who fought for the little guy. And It's the reverse. Batman was modelled after superman, shadow, zorro.. Etc and that ip's success.Bvs is exactly what i am talking. They shoved in batman and cut out Clark's parts.Morever,the character wasn't given that much screen time to begin with.

[The Darknight Detective]

Nobody is saying it's a "conspiracy." What they are saying is that the business decision to make everything about Batman is, well, a little short-sighted. There's a reason people say things like "don't put all your eggs in one basket." And corporations are not infallible. Corporations are made up of people and as such, are capable of mistakes or just not taking everything into account. I mean, there's a long history of bad decisions made by companies (and some bad decisions made by DC and Marvel themselves) to back that up.

That's not what I was addressing, though. I have seen numerous posts in the ten years I have been here where people specifically said Didio or whoever were making decisions based solely on their own preferences. To me, that's just silly.

[The Darknight Detective]

That’s largely because female readers feel that the superhero genre doesn’t cater to them. Imagine if those readers did feel welcomed by more female characters actually having titles.

I completely agree it would be great all around, but this has been a problem for decades now. It's not just a matter of creating titles for girls/women, but to get them interested in comics in the first place. Since readerships has been dwindling for all groups since forever, that's not an easy obstacle to overcome.

[SiegePerilous02]

Superman being Batman's opposite is what makes him work, it's just that WB has fumbled that in the movies side so much so Cavill's been in limbo and without a solo movie since B vs S. He's been in Batman's shadow more often not, which has only hurt him. On tv he's slowly been making a comeback on the CW, and he's about to get his own live action show again. He hasn't had a solo cartoon since Superman TAS, which ended 20 years years ago!

I actually don't think it benefits either character that much, especially Superman. It simplifies them down to "light vs. dark" which is like basic bitch storytelling. And more often than not it's used to highlight how Batman is the cooler of the two, which kind of leads to the current situation.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

That's not what I was addressing, though. I have seen numerous posts in the ten years I have been here where people specifically said Didio or whoever were making decisions based solely on their own preferences. To me, that's just silly.

https://www.gamesradar.com/former-dc...ally-and-dick/

For me, Wally West was a core concept issue. My problem with Wally was that his origin was always dependent on [his uncle and previous Flash] Barry Allen. He was never his own character. He was always going to be subservient to Barry in some way because his origin was determined by Barry. There was always a Flash in front of him and his powers were because of him. I always felt, as a true Flash, if we were trying to get to the simplest form with regards to media and things like that, we had to go back to Barry because the story starts with him.

With [original Robin] Dick Grayson — and this is the same with Wally — people loved them because they aged with them, so they feel this affinity that these guys have grown up with them. The problem is that much like Batman and Superman, now Dick Grayson and Wally West have to stop aging, because they're going to pass their mentors.

That sounds a lot like personal preference and perception to me.

[Flash Gordon]

Seems more an indictment of DC Comics than the characters if they apparently can't do anything meaningful to ride off the success of their films that have zero Batman in them.

I mean its pretty insane that there's nothing taking advantage of the success of WONDER WOMAN and AQUAMAN. AQUAMAN made over a billion, and there's no cartoons or real push to go alongside that? Comics wise, the comic has been really great outside of the DROWNED EARTH stuff- and sales probably aren't going to change. The wider audience is where Aquaman should be promoted.

[Agent Z]

I mean its pretty insane that there's nothing taking advantage of the success of WONDER WOMAN and AQUAMAN. AQUAMAN made over a billion, and there's no cartoons or real push to go alongside that? Comics wise, the comic has been really great outside of the DROWNED EARTH stuff- and sales probably aren't going to change. The wider audience is where Aquaman should be promoted.

Okay credit to WB here, they are working on an Aquaman animated series set in the DCEU and produced by James Wan.

[Flash Gordon]

Okay credit to WB here, they are working on an Aquaman animated series set in the DCEU and produced by James Wan.

Yeah, a mini series right? I mean at least there's that, probably mostly James Wan getting that through.

[Gaius]

I mean its pretty insane that there's nothing taking advantage of the success of WONDER WOMAN and AQUAMAN. AQUAMAN made over a billion, and there's no cartoons or real push to go alongside that? Comics wise, the comic has been really great outside of the DROWNED EARTH stuff- and sales probably aren't going to change. The wider audience is where Aquaman should be promoted.

Guess the best Wonder Woman can get is being a ride-along character in another Bat-centered event. Which apparently to some is enough to qualify being a Wonder Woman-story

[The Darknight Detective]

https://www.gamesradar.com/former-dc...ally-and-dick/



That sounds a lot like personal preference and perception to me.

So you're saying Didio cares more about fictional characters than either making money for DC or his position? Maybe my post was directed at you after all.

All things equal, yes, personal preference can be a factor. But I doubt Didio read a market research survey that stated Wally was far more profitable than Barry, yet decided to go with latter anyway (which, IMO, would be a stupid thing to do). None of us here knows for sure, but most likely research suggested either one would bring in similar sales. In a case like that, then going with your favorite could happen.

[Samm]

Spider-Man and X-Men are almost consistently the big winners for Marvel every year. Maybe there is an Avengers event or something that breaks in, but they have their bread and butter too. Take away the Spider books and DC wins

Take away the X-Men books, Marvel still survives. Take away the Spider-Man books, Marvel still survives. Take away the Batman books and DC dies! That’s a huge problem! And until DC fixes that, they’ll always be runner up.

[The tall man]

I mean its pretty insane that there's nothing taking advantage of the success of WONDER WOMAN and AQUAMAN. AQUAMAN made over a billion, and there's no cartoons or real push to go alongside that? Comics wise, the comic has been really great outside of the DROWNED EARTH stuff- and sales probably aren't going to change. The wider audience is where Aquaman should be promoted.

Just because a movie has financial success doesn't mean that it will be transferred to the comics as well. Just look at the MCU, characters like Iron Man, Captain America, Black Panther, Thor and Captain Marvel sell moderate to low despite their movie success. There was hardly any to no crossover whatsoever. The vast majority of movie goers are not comic book readers, they just want to be entertained for a couple of hours and get back to their lives. Because they went to see Wonder Woman or Aquaman does not mean they are gonna run to the nearest comic book store to start reading their books. At best they may buy some merch for their kids and probably some video games. Could they produce some cartoons or animated films? Sure if they deem it cost effective and get some return for their efforts. Marvel attempted to push their characters to the wider audience and the results were average, the same would most likely be the same for DC's characters. WW and AM are getting sequels that will most likely be as successful as their previous movies and of course merch will go along with that but I suspect that there will be no comic bounce because people just want entertainment and are not looking to become comic book readers. Little Timmy or Suzie wants an action figure or t-shirt then fine but I don't think they'll be wanting back issues of comics. Because the next "thing" or comic movie will be right around the corner and Wonder Woman and Aquaman will be in the past like all previous comic movies. But to bring it around to the topic, Batman will continue to sell big because he is super popular just like Spider-man. The difference being that they don't need a movie or milestone issues to sell big.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

So you're saying Didio cares more about fictional characters than either making money for DC or his position? Maybe my post was directed at you after all.

All things equal, yes, personal preference can be a factor. But I doubt Didio read a market research survey that stated Wally was far more profitable than Barry, yet decided to go with latter anyway (which, IMO, would be a stupid thing to do). None of us here knows for sure, but most likely research suggested either one would bring in similar sales. In a case like that, then going with your favorite could happen.

I mean, you saw it come from the guy himself. He didn't make a decision based on data or sales figures. He made the decision based on his personal preference and there's no denying that. Now, that's not necessarily a bad thing on its face. However, Wally was by all accounts, a very popular Flash, and is a fan-favorite DC character. So, there was no other reason besides personal preference for Barry. And I actually like that Barry's back. However, then taking the direction of completely downplaying Wally was not one driven by sales.

But, this is a little off-topic for this thread. However, I think there's nothing wrong using personal intuition or preference when leading a company like DC or Marvel. They may be businesses, but they are businesses that specialize in a creative, artistic product. So, personal vision is a part of guiding that forward. It just so happened that Dan Didio's vision just wasn't one that resonated with most fans. However, another vision might. And the vision that fans on here are advocating for is just one in which DC does not simply rely on Batman for sales or to build up hype. And I say this as a huge Batman fan.

[The Darknight Detective]

I mean, you saw it come from the guy himself. He didn't make a decision based on data or sales figures.

No, we don't know that at all. For example, I despise reality TV, but if I cancelled it all on a network I was in control of, does that mean I didn't consult other data first? I can assure you I would be a complete moron to do something like that without other research first. Just because he (like all of us) has a bias doesn't mean he solely acted upon it. Of course, if you have a quote of his stating otherwise, then I will admit I'm wrong regarding Didio.

But, this is a little off-topic for this thread. However, I think there's nothing wrong using personal intuition or preference when leading a company like DC or Marvel. They may be businesses, but they are businesses that specialize in a creative, artistic product. So, personal vision is a part of guiding that forward. It just so happened that Dan Didio's vision just wasn't one that resonated with most fans. However, another vision might. And the vision that fans on here are advocating for is just one in which DC does not simply rely on Batman for sales or to build up hype. And I say this as a huge Batman fan.

Artistic vision is great, but it still sits in the passenger seat, while profit drives the car. Now I'm not arguing whether this is right or wrong, but that's just the way it is with companies as big as DC.