Which two Fantastic Four members lives will be forever changed?

[jackolover]

I don't think that the Doom thing is such a problem that could have only worked when Sue was a damsel in the 6os. Secret wars showed it and it wasn't only about Reed.

The problem with Namor being with Sue is the same overall problem writres have had with FF. Let me explain

In sixties a family of heroes having real world issue and fighting villains across universe was brand new. Today it's not and its nor that interesting. It isnt the characters, or the writing, it's that the ff family dynamic isnt easy to write engaging stories anymore.

Which is same thing with the Sue and Namor arc. It isnt interesting. Would anyone read a comic with those two? What would it even entail? It's a nice little love triangle to create tension is all. Even that is boring today.

Let me spell it out. Namor and Sue is a boring result with no payoff unless it's to have them ride off into sunset and never return expect for occasionally guest spots. It essentially kills both characters for any momentum.

Doom and Sue does the opposite. It makes them both engaging and interesting and the overall dynamic of Doom, Sue, Val and Frank. As well as how Johnny and Ben would deal.

I'd imagine Reed does something, but I doubt its involving medusa.

And I'm a FF traditionalist too. It's taken me a long long time to get to this point. I just dont think it will remain if it doesnt drastically change. I dont want FF to go away again.

Namor and Sue is like putting a nail in that coffin. More so than her staying with Reed

Who knew that the main point that Jonathan Hickman was leading to in his whole FF run was to match Doom and Sue? That’s what happened in his finale piece in Secret Wars.

[ARkadelphia]

Entire Family moves to Krakoa. Reed and Sue, not getting the whole poly thing, split up when Sue gets together with Logan and Reed gets together with Emma.

[Triniking1234]

Kinda disgusted at the people who want Susan to leave Reed and hook up with Doom. Didn't he download his mind into an innocent kid's brain, launch her into space and blew her up? Unbelievable. Not even Magneto x Rogue is this horrid of a pairing.

Who knew that the main point that Jonathan Hickman was leading to in his whole FF run was to match Doom and Sue? That’s what happened in his finale piece in Secret Wars.

Hickman pairing Doom with an alternate version of Susan was his way of showing that he's still jealous of what Reed has.

[Will Evans]

Kinda disgusted at the people who want Susan to leave Reed and hook up with Doom. Didn't he download his mind into an innocent kid's brain, launch her into space and blew her up? Unbelievable. Not even Magneto x Rogue is this horrid of a pairing.



Hickman pairing Doom with an alternate version of Susan was his way of showing that he's still jealous of what Reed has.

Even in House of M, Doom got his own F4, with Val, Kristoff and Ben now as his best friend.

[Crimz]

I canÂ’t see a problem here. Valeria is in close ties with Victor, who is obviously besotted by her. That Sue would warm to Victor because of his relationship with Valeria is so loving, cannot go unnoticed by Sue as supportive and seeing Victor as an uncle Doom would be the first steps to that.

My own view is that the ties between Victor and Sues birthing of Val, Reed trying to rectify that Doom deserves recognition for saving the Multiverse, and Reed was in the wrong, and that Reed wants to make Doom the hero of his story, giving Victor the recognition he deserves, despite Dooms shortcomings. All these things I see mounting up and converging at some point in history. I donÂ’t think it can be avoided. The power of Valeria in this dynamic is too strong.



I donÂ’t want to get into the whole weak or strong character of Sue here. I agree the Sue in Secret Wars was more a trophy wife for Doom, but the concept attracted me, because it led Sue to be reconciled with Victor, and we saw that with how she was so in agreement with what Doom did in Battleworld. I would point out that Sue interrupted Dooms judgement (to kill all the family of the Brittons) in SW#1, and how Victor respected Sue in this way. This is a big diversion from the murderous Doom we are used to. Then in the ending of SWÂ’s, Doom pleaded with Sue to trust him. This is not a Doom we usually see.

I am not that convinced Sue is a leader of the FF if you have Reed or Doom there who find the solutions to a problem with their inventions. My opinion is that Sue is suited to and likes to be the parent of the kids, and helps out in fights when she can. We have seen Sue have tantrums of frustration at Reed for not being there when he is required. That doesnÂ’t say she can enforce respect from Reed, because Reed gets distracted too often. But with Doom she was more tender, and Doom respected what input she made. I donÂ’t think Reed does. What I think Reed needs to do is own that he canÂ’t be there for Sue and his family. That is his character. Val complains about Reeds lying all the time.

IÂ’m a little intrigued that the coupling on alternative Earth FF of Doom and Sue from 1997, was also on the Moon at that time, considering Reed and Stark are on the Moon right now trying to fix the black hole out of control, that Doom is about to fix.

Val's relationship with Doom does not mean that Sue should suddenly want to marry him. Her daughter liking the man does not change all the years he's tormented her and her loved ones. It makes no sense as Sue has shown disdain for Doom on many occasions, more than Reed (his archenemies) has. Because Reed is about saving him and looking for the good in him, Sue does not and only tolerates him for Reed and Val.

Notice in your post that you have not come up with any reason why this would benefit Sue (because there isn't one). All you have mentioned is how it would effect Doom and how the current relationship helps Reed. Sue is and should be more than emotional support to men. She's her own character and stories which develop and benefit the character should be prioritized over the cheapest of drama that does nothing but harm the character.
Sue has proven that she is a capable leader and when Reed was presumed dead back in the 90s he even admitted that she was more capable at it than him. The only reason he became leader again was because of comics tending to revert back to status quo. Being the most intelligent does not mean someone is the best choice to lead, that's not how it works.

Nothing about the premise makes sense for the character and would only provide cheap drama that damages the character. Even the alt realty where is happens is only to shock and motivate Reed. Sue Storm is and should be more than an object to motivate male characters.

[Montressor]

I've always wanted Sue to have some sort of major rift with Reed and finally give in to her secret lust for Namor.

[Crimz]

I've always wanted Sue to have some sort of major rift with Reed and finally give in to her secret lust for Namor.

I think it would lead to the same thing with the Doom suggestion, it would irreparably damage the character and does little to develop her.

[BitParallel]

Wasn’t there a recent issue where the writer gave „Sue actually wants Namör but she settled for Reed“ kinda vibe

[Crimz]

Wasn’t there a recent issue where the writer gave „Sue actually wants Namör but she settled for Reed“ kinda vibe

Fantastic Four: Grand Design is the only think I can think of.

It's an alt reality where she cheated on Reed, Franklin is Namor's kid and she eventually leaves Reed for Namor. It's the best example of how such a story would not benefit Sue at all.
She is barely used in the book and once she leaves she doesn't reappear until years later (in-story). It shows how it does nothing good for the character at all, it would only be for cheap drama. She doesn't develop, grow, or have anything positive from leaving Reed for Namor (or Doom). It just has her be cheater and unlikable.

[Will Evans]

Why would Sue want to live in Atlantis and join Namor’s dead wives club (Dorma, Marrina)

[BitParallel]

Fantastic Four: Grand Design is the only think I can think of.

It's an alt reality where she cheated on Reed, Franklin is Namor's kid and she eventually leaves Reed for Namor. It's the best example of how such a story would not benefit Sue at all.
She is barely used in the book and once she leaves she doesn't reappear until years later (in-story). It shows how it does nothing good for the character at all, it would only be for cheap drama. She doesn't develop, grow, or have anything positive from leaving Reed for Namor (or Doom). It just has her be cheater and unlikable.

What a bad story.

I want Sue to be independent and not tied to her family or a man. Like a solo Sue story without it being about her family and husband. I want her to break free.

[Triniking1234]

Crimz is a hero for making it true FF Grand Design. That was a disgusting experience. Why the hell didn't they just stick to what Piskor did with X-Men?

What a bad story.

I want Sue to be independent and not tied to her family or a man. Like a solo Sue story without it being about her family and husband. I want her to break free.

Didn't Mark Waid do that with the solo?

[Marvel Forever]

I've always wanted Sue to have some sort of major rift with Reed and finally give in to her secret lust for Namor.

Wow..... I guess I am not alone, Crimz, as one hoping to see Reed and Sue have a marital split.

[Triniking1234]

They already had a split in the old days when Reed shot Franklin. Reed was also absent in Sue's life when he was kidnapped.

[Will Evans]

Sue needs to runaway with Psycho Man. He’ll treat her right.