Lucifer Morningstar vs Adult Franklin Richards

[Shellhead]

Lucifer wouldn't get killed by a Sentinel.

[Nik Hasta]

What are Big Franklin's feats?

I know he made Galactus his Herald and temporarily converted him into the Life Giver. He also had a conversation with Black Bolt but I don't have a really idea of how big his firepower is.

Strictly speaking, raw offensive power has never been Lucifer's defining attribute. He's more focused and good at killing exceptionally powerful beings but I don't think he's ever just flatly busted up a universe on panel.

Now, his defences? At their peak? It's very hard to put even a scratch on his paintwork.

[Jackalope89]

It would probably go very similar to this clip from Supernatural (using their own Lucifer vs a squad of regular angels);

[Shai-Hulud]

He's more focused and good at killing exceptionally powerful beings but I don't think he's ever just flatly busted up a universe on panel.

He manipulated the energy of the DCU Big Bang (Michael's initial power release at the beginning of time) into every star and galaxy in the universe.

0FUb.jpg

I think about this particular comic page a lot. It's one of the most intriguing comic pages I've ever come across.

So was this one universe the three demiurgic archangels were creating, or myriads? Was the DCU one universe or many at the beginning?

Anyway, the latest count for our own universe is two trillion galaxies. If the three angels created/shaped just one universe equivalent in size to our own, that gives Lucifer two trillion galaxies worth of energy to manipulate.

What's the most resistance/durability Adult Franklin Richards has ever shown?

If the three are creating multiple universes, like the Pre-Crisis multiverse or some other iteration, the amount of energy manipulating gets even greater. Of course, I'm admittedly uncertain how Vertigo Original Lucifer fits in to any aspect of DC's history, if it even does. (And also how DC's history fits into any aspect of DC's history, if it even does.)

And of course, we don't know how long it took Lucifer to accomplish this initial manipulation, but just channeling the energy into a big destructive power blast should be a lot simpler that delicately weaving it into suns and galaxies.

[Slade1]

He manipulated the energy of the DCU Big Bang (Michael's initial power release at the beginning of time) into every star and galaxy in the universe.

0FUb.jpg


Anyway, the latest count for our own universe is two trillion galaxies.

Just a minor nitpick, but the two trillion galaxies is within the observable universe. We have no idea what is outside that range. But scientists have postulated that the entire universe is 150 sextillion times larger than the observable universe we see now.

[Shai-Hulud]

Just a minor nitpick, but the two trillion galaxies is within the observable universe. We have no idea what is outside that range. But scientists have postulated that the entire universe is 150 sextillion times larger than the observable universe we see now.

Which is a number we can't properly fathom. So here's Lucifer with this level of energy manipulation and we can't even mentally encompass the math.

[The Arbiter]

Franklin is usually presented as on par with a Celestial. As an adult, above that. Maybe several Celestials but even he cant fight off a whole host IIRC.

He made a pocket universe if I recall.

Lucifer should take this imo.

[Captain Morgan]

He did rewrite how time passes in his own cosmos. Or rather built it from the ground up so it would be different than the normal cosmos.

[The Dork Knight]

What are Big Franklin's feats?

I know he made Galactus his Herald and temporarily converted him into the Life Giver. He also had a conversation with Black Bolt but I don't have a really idea of how big his firepower is.

Strictly speaking, raw offensive power has never been Lucifer's defining attribute. He's more focused and good at killing exceptionally powerful beings but I don't think he's ever just flatly busted up a universe on panel.

Now, his defences? At their peak? It's very hard to put even a scratch on his paintwork.

He destroyed the Houses of dead or whatever they were called as a side effect of existing

[Nik Hasta]

On the topic of continuity soecifically, I will note that Vertigo's approach to the origins of the universe, both before and after their properties were absorbed by DC fully, has always been "Yes,"

Like even within the story of original Lucifer itself there are aspects of creation that indicate that the creation of the universe and how it came to be is kind of everything and nothing. Multiple gods and pantheons make claim to being creators of the world/the universe/creation and so on and the story is sort of like "No, yeah all of them," Like the titans are able to go and just assume the position of becoming the makers and lords of creation by manipulating history so they are the focus of Christianity.

Meanwhile, in Sandman which is canon to Lucifer as it goes, Dream is able to rewrite the entire history of the universe in the Tale of Cats without... apparently, ruffling the feathers of the Presence. DC/Vertigo universal origin continuity is a bit wilder and, in some ways, a bit more fun in how consciously messy it is.

How that fits in with the larger DC thing, especially with the recent addition of Perpetua, World Forger and his brothers and the Raptor from beyond the Source, I don't know but I think being a bit mysterious about it is fun.

[The Dork Knight]

The recent stuff explicitly incorporates the Sandman stuff as in Daniel shows up to help against Perpetua's kid's pet

[Nik Hasta]

He destroyed the Houses of dead or whatever they were called as a side effect of existing

The Mansions of Silence were noted as being a particularly "fragile" in terms of dimensional realms. Like, Lucifer specifically couldn't go there because someone as powerful as him would tear them apart by walking in. So... a slightly different to actually busting up a universe as we understand it under normal terms.

That said they were also home to "untold billions of beings" and innumerable parallel continuities of those those billions so it might be analogous in terms of scale.

But an odd feat.

[The Dork Knight]

The Mansions of Silence were noted as being a particularly "fragile" in terms of dimensional realms. Like, Lucifer specifically couldn't go there because someone as powerful as him would tear them apart by walking in. So... a slightly different to actually busting up a universe as we understand it under normal terms.

That said they were also home to "untold billions of beings" and innumerable parallel continuities of those those billions so it might be analogous in terms of scale.

But an odd feat.

Ehh. It survived the presence of other beings with "super powers" fine.

It was more a case of Lucifer being so powerful, a somewhat fragile dimension cant even tolerate his presence

So it's a case of his raw power accidentally dimension busting, even a weaked dimension. As far as power goes

[Nik Hasta]

Ehh. It survived the presence of other beings with "super powers" fine.

Like who? No one who we saw in there was remotely comparable to Lucifer in terms of scale and power.

In the team of people Lucifer sent was...

- A lesser Norse god.
- Two fallen cherubim.
- The former host of the Basanos, now mostly completely human.
- A ghost.
- A clone of an angel.
- A demon.

The most powerful beings we see in there in the course of the story was... Ershad's monster baby and Eikon, the first child of the Basanos.

Ershad's baby, who had already been shown to be completely unable to hurt Lucifer in any way shape or form, and Eikon was given flesh there due to the weird temporal elements influencing Jill Presto's pregnancy rather than being born. If he was on the level of the full Basanos itself, that would be... something... but we have no reason to believe that Eikon was that powerful and even fully realised the Basanos were still completely unable to effect beings on Lucifer's power level.

The dead Tsukiyomi was there too but he was never on Lucifer's level even in life.

It's a feat for Lucifer being mad strong, sure, but we never see anyone approaching his ballpark operating in there.

[The Dork Knight]

The point being, things with not-inconsiderate amounts of power (esp including the Basanos) didnt destroy the dimension by existing

Lucifer did. So as far as "fragile" dimensions go, the one Lucifer destroyed wasnt incapable of holding power, just not Lucifer's level of power

It's a good testament to Lucifer's raw power on a universal scale, aside from stuff like killing Michael or "fight" showings, to show he can produce offensive power on that scale