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  1. #331
    Amazing Member braddocks's Avatar
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    The issue with Wanda is almost the same one Jean initially had when the Dark Phoenix Saga happened - both had committed such terrible acts they couldn’t be seen just be heroes again. Jean was killed off, and Wanda disappeared for 10 years.

    I think Bendis might have had an idea with what to do with her, but the Young Avengers writer wanted to resolve Billy and Tommy’s storyline so they did Children’s Crusade which resolved pretty much nothing, and retconned the situation poorly.

    It’s a complete mess. And it’s not even just M-Day - for someone who caused the worst day in Avengers history, there wasn’t a lot to address that either.

  2. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by braddocks View Post
    The issue with Wanda is almost the same one Jean initially had when the Dark Phoenix Saga happened - both had committed such terrible acts they couldn’t be seen just be heroes again. Jean was killed off, and Wanda disappeared for 10 years.
    Yeah, not loving this 'women can't handle power' trope that seems to crop up whenever a female character gets Thor / Silver Surfer / Black Bolt / Dr. Strange levels of power.

    I think Bendis might have had an idea with what to do with her, but the Young Avengers writer wanted to resolve Billy and Tommy’s storyline so they did Children’s Crusade which resolved pretty much nothing, and retconned the situation poorly.
    I really, really wanted to like Children's Crusade, but it did occasionally come across as a bad fanfic attempt to 'fix' the situation.

    But I have zero belief that Bendis had any plan to do anything about it. Pretty much his one consistent feature is upsetting the applecart and walking away, leaving everyone else to clean up the mess.

  3. #333
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king of hybrids View Post
    Setting aside the risk that Strange (or Loki. It was a confusing year) or Magik would sense it, the method she accumulated the power/components for the staff don’t strike me as a two go arrangement
    that's possible and if that's the case she should have just not bothered not knowing what the end result would be.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, BEYOND OMEGA, THE VOICE OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  4. #334
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoCoBandz View Post
    It's Wanda.

    She doesn't think she just screws up.
    I'm screaming lololol
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, BEYOND OMEGA, THE VOICE OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  5. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    I really, really wanted to like Children's Crusade, but it did occasionally come across as a bad fanfic attempt to 'fix' the situation.

    But I have zero belief that Bendis had any plan to do anything about it. Pretty much his one consistent feature is upsetting the applecart and walking away, leaving everyone else to clean up the mess.
    Bendis (and Tom Brevoort, I guess, since he was editing the thing) always seemed to stick to the idea that Wanda was a crazy bitch driven mad by her own uncontrollable omnipotent powers. When he brought back Vision, "Children's Crusade" was close to wrapping up and they must have known Wanda was going to come back, but in that issue Tony tells Vision what happened in Disassembled/House of M and just says that Wanda "wiped out an entire race, just to get back at her father."

    Then Vision goes and makes up with the She-Hulk, who gets to apologize to him for ripping him apart (under Wanda's spell) in Avengers Disassembled. (It almost goes without saying that writers/editors have never given Wanda the chance to make up with or even meet most of her old friends.) Jen tells Vision not to blame Wanda completely, because it's partly the fault of the way she was raised, having Magneto for a father. While the readers are screaming: "Magneto didn't raise her, Brian!" Vision goes off to confront Magneto and the rest of the issue is about what Magneto did to screw up his children.

    It kind of sums up the problems with the way Wanda was written and talked about in HoM and for many years after: a) Characters always talking about her, never giving her a chance to speak for herself, b) Reducing her to a character in Magneto's story, even though her being Magneto's daughter was mostly irrelevant to her history, and c) Never giving her a chance to atone for the things writers made her do and repair the relationships those two stories destroyed.

  6. #336
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Agreed Wanda needs a story in which she´s herself and can explain her actions and apologize when neccesary without making it too complicated. Given this X-men of Empyre was done by Hickman I think we will see something like this down the line, it will be an interesting contrast to see Wanda´s pov vs Exodus´s.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 07-25-2020 at 04:42 PM.
    "To the X-men then, who don´t die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

    Magneto: The master of magnetism Appreciation 2022
    Polaris: The Mistress of Magnetism Appreciation 2022
    House of M Appreciation 2022

  7. #337
    Fantastic Member Criticalfan's Avatar
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    IMG_20200725_203558.jpg

    I feel this so hard after this issue.

  8. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    Which times? I can only count two in CC when she remember and now. That has been the biggest problem with Wanda the lack of remorse.

    10char
    That she did in Uncanny Avengers, as well. But at least you're willing to admit she did it, most people think she's gloating over getting with destroying mutant kind and never shown any remorse, period.

    She didn't want Stranges help. She went to Doom with the idea to harness the life force because she knew Strange wouldn't approve.

    She was grieving but that doesn't mean she was in a state of psychosis before approached Doom. She had the ability to rationalise and think up a plan to get the life force and was aware enough to know Strange wouldn't help her because she knew she was meddling with something she shouldn't have.
    Dr. Strange knew she was in trouble, did nothing and once Avengers: Dissembled happened he visited the Avengers to blame Wanda for not calling him first. Wanda also had Xavier helping her with therapy in House of M, no explanation why he failed or didn't try again he just gave up. He didn't put any restraining bolts of her mentally like with Jean, just sighed and moved on.

  9. #339
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    That she did in Uncanny Avengers, as well. But at least you're willing to admit she did it, most people think she's gloating over getting with destroying mutant kind and never shown any remorse, period.

    ...
    So...

    You have a couple of instances where she has admitted to some remorse and made not real attempts a making it right, but you are pushing the idea that said effort should be an acceptable effort for folks to just say "Yeah, She's Done The Work..."

    Do you seriously not see where that is not going to be anywhere near enough for a lot of "X" readers?
    Last edited by numberthirty; 07-25-2020 at 08:29 PM.

  10. #340
    Ultimate Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    That she did in Uncanny Avengers, as well. But at least you're willing to admit she did it, most people think she's gloating over getting with destroying mutant kind and never shown any remorse, period.



    Dr. Strange knew she was in trouble, did nothing and once Avengers: Dissembled happened he visited the Avengers to blame Wanda for not calling him first. Wanda also had Xavier helping her with therapy in House of M, no explanation why he failed or didn't try again he just gave up. He didn't put any restraining bolts of her mentally like with Jean, just sighed and moved on.
    Again which times in Uncanny Avengers. Wanda showed no remorse in it. The closest thing to it is her saying "she takes responsibility" but if you look at her conversation with Rogue she also said in that same conversation "why does it matter".

    I even looked through AvX to see if she showed any remorse and she didn't. She kept reminding people that she was the one who carried out HoM. "Do you know who I am? Do you know what I can do?"

    So which instances are referring to? Remenders UA was problematic for that very reason.

    If you're going by CCs before Avengers Disassembled where she plans to get the life force she did not tell Strange because she knew she he wouldn't help her as stated in CC. We're talking about the decision to actively seek out the life force knowing full well Strange wouldn't approve which is why she went to Doom. We're not talking about after she obtains the life force as she was "possessed " we're talking about her knowing full well seeking the life force was wrong in the first place.

  11. #341
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    Again which times in Uncanny Avengers. Wanda showed no remorse in it. The closest thing to it is her saying "she takes responsibility" but if you look at her conversation with Rogue she also said in that same conversation "why does it matter".

    I even looked through AvX to see if she showed any remorse and she didn't. She kept reminding people that she was the one who carried out HoM. "Do you know who I am? Do you know what I can do?"

    So which instances are referring to? Remenders UA was problematic for that very reason.

    If you're going by CCs before Avengers Disassembled where she plans to get the life force she did not tell Strange because she knew she he wouldn't help her as stated in CC. We're talking about the decision to actively seek out the life force knowing full well Strange wouldn't approve which is why she went to Doom. We're not talking about after she obtains the life force as she was "possessed " we're talking about her knowing full well seeking the life force was wrong in the first place.
    To put it simply, the best way to go over it is going to be for someone making the assertion that Wanda has actually been remorseful to provide the exact examples where they believe that she did so.

    Otherwise?

    There is enough agreement that she really hasn't that it's hard to take a "She Has Shown Remorse..." assertion very seriously.

  12. #342
    Astonishing Member CoCoBandz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Agreed Wanda needs a story in which she´s herself and can explain her actions and apologize when neccesary without making it too complicated. Given this X-men of Empyre was done by Hickman I think we will see something like this down the line, it will be an interesting contrast to see Wanda´s pov vs Exodus´s.
    When Exodus finds out that she defiled so many mutants it's gonna be his hands vs her throat from our POV.
    The Krakoans are EEEvil!

    THEY MUST BE STOPPED!

  13. #343
    Ultimate Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    To put it simply, the best way to go over it is going to be for someone making the assertion that Wanda has actually been remorseful to provide the exact examples where they believe that she did so.

    Otherwise?

    There is enough agreement that she really hasn't that it's hard to take a "She Has Shown Remorse..." assertion very seriously.
    Uncanny Avengers 1:- no regret for what she has done. Shows up to Xaviers funeral to pay respects to him. Wuestions mutant identity. Says why does it matter.

    Uncanny Avengers 2:- Red Skull say they share some sort of semblance as even a part of her wanted to erase mutants. Wandas response "I was lost, my children dead and my father needed to see" No remorse she wanted to punish Magneto by punishing everyone else. He manages to use this to turn her into a full blown bigot with mind control.

    UA 3 nothing in this

    UA 4 Wanda promising not to controlled by a madman again but no remorse.

    UA 5 Angry that she's not been made leader doesn't quite understand why she shouldn't be the face of human muyant relations team

    UA 6 nil

    UA Thor issue 7

    UA 8 Janet defends Wandas genocide as she's an Avenger and family

    Nothing till issue 9 Wanda trashes mutants via Remenders Call me Alex defence

    UA 11 Apocalypse twins tell her she wiped out a species no response decides to create a AU by rupturing mutants

    UA 12 Finally admits wrong doing then blames Dr Doom in the next instance lol

    UA 14 gets stabbed by rogue for not learning her lesson

    Then its not addressed again. Axis happens where she blames Doom again

    I'll go through UA vol 2 next

    Remender did a counterevolutionary arc where she finds out she's not a mutant and no mention of it there either
    Last edited by ExodusCloak; 07-26-2020 at 02:56 AM.

  14. #344
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    Uncanny Avengers 1:- no regret for what she has done. Shows up to Xaviers funeral to pay respects to him. Wuestions mutant identity. Says why does it matter.

    Uncanny Avengers 2:- Red Skull say they share some sort of semblance as even a part of her wanted to erase mutants. Wandas response "I was lost, my children dead and my father needed to see" No remorse she wanted to punish Magneto by punishing everyone else. He manages to use this to turn her into a full blown bigot with mind control.

    UA 3 nothing in this

    UA 4 Wanda promising not to controlled by a madman again but no remorse.

    UA 5 Angry that she's not been made leader doesn't quite understand why she shouldn't be the face of human muyant relations team

    UA 6 nil

    UA Thor issue 7

    UA 8 Janet defends Wandas genocide as she's an Avenger and family

    Nothing till issue 9 Wanda trashes mutants via Remenders Call me Alex defence

    UA 11 Apocalypse twins tell her she wiped out a species no response decides to create a AU by rupturing mutants

    UA 12 Finally admits wrong doing then blames Dr Doom in the next instance lol

    UA 14 gets stabbed by rogue for not learning her lesson

    Then its not addressed again. Axis happens where she blames Doom again

    I'll go through UA vol 2 next

    Remender did a counterevolutionary arc where she finds out she's not a mutant and no mention of it there either
    Lol are you rereading all of it looking for a Wanda apology?

  15. #345
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    Uncanny Avengers 1:- no regret for what she has done. Shows up to Xaviers funeral to pay respects to him. Wuestions mutant identity. Says why does it matter.

    Uncanny Avengers 2:- Red Skull say they share some sort of semblance as even a part of her wanted to erase mutants. Wandas response "I was lost, my children dead and my father needed to see" No remorse she wanted to punish Magneto by punishing everyone else. He manages to use this to turn her into a full blown bigot with mind control.

    UA 3 nothing in this

    UA 4 Wanda promising not to controlled by a madman again but no remorse.

    UA 5 Angry that she's not been made leader doesn't quite understand why she shouldn't be the face of human muyant relations team

    UA 6 nil

    UA Thor issue 7

    UA 8 Janet defends Wandas genocide as she's an Avenger and family

    Nothing till issue 9 Wanda trashes mutants via Remenders Call me Alex defence

    UA 11 Apocalypse twins tell her she wiped out a species no response decides to create a AU by rupturing mutants

    UA 12 Finally admits wrong doing then blames Dr Doom in the next instance lol

    UA 14 gets stabbed by rogue for not learning her lesson

    Then its not addressed again. Axis happens where she blames Doom again

    I'll go through UA vol 2 next

    Remender did a counterevolutionary arc where she finds out she's not a mutant and no mention of it there either
    lol YAAASSSS! lets see them 'receipts'
    GrindrStone(D)

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