Empyre - X-men #1 - Alien Plants vs Mutant Zombies vs SPOILERS

[Steel Inquisitor]

Oh, I'm not disagreeing; but I think Wanda fans should resign to the fact that she will forever be known as a giant f*ck up

I haven't met one who doesn't, including me. However, I have seen Wanda haters who get angry whenever anyone writes her sympathetically because that stops them being able to hate on her with impunity and then go on to celebrate Mr. Sinister without missing a beat.

[charliehustle415]

I haven't met one who doesn't, including me. However, I have seen Wanda haters who get angry whenever anyone writes her sympathetically because that stops them being able to hate on her with impunity and then go on to celebrate Mr. Sinister without missing a beat.

There is hope that Hickman may redeem her in one of Moira's lives; one can hope

[Frobisher]

I haven't met one who doesn't, including me. However, I have seen Wanda haters who get angry whenever anyone writes her sympathetically because that stops them being able to hate on her with impunity and then go on to celebrate Mr. Sinister without missing a beat.

Mr Sinister probably has a way lower body count, mind #sinisterdidnothingwrong

[king of hybrids]

The other explanation to Wanda just buggering off and leaving a mutant zombie Horde might be that the Axis retcon is already undone, she was eaten and Erik & Charles just stuck her in a more conventional clone body and sent her on her way?

[Steel Inquisitor]

Mr Sinister probably has a way lower body count, mind #sinisterdidnothingwrong

Case in point. The grudge against her has nothing to do with protecting mutant life, it's about whether they like her. If Wanda was as evil as want her to be she'd be celebrated right now as someone who allowed mutant kind to reform itself into Krakoa and be welcomed on the Quiet Council.

[Veitha]

Case in point. The grudge against her has nothing to do with protecting mutant life, it's about whether they like her. If Wanda was as evil as want her to be she'd be celebrated right now as someone who allowed mutant kind to reform itself into Krakoa and be welcomed on the Quiet Council.

M'Day was a set back, Charles and Moira met way before M'Day. The fall in population with Genosha and M'Day made mutants population much smaller for yearsz that's why ORCHIS was only activated now. She didn't help anyone.

I mean, she's a character who fucks up lol. The grudge is because again she put herself before others, and she messed up again. She did screw up in the past, and I can appreciate trying to make amends, but the driving force behind it was seeking redemption for herself, not for the victims. And she used dark magic and forces she couldn't control to reach her goal and it backfired (again). And resurrecting 16 million mutants abruptly and in a barren land is also a very bad idea (see how Krakoa is handling Resurrections instead). Weren't you talking about consent about being Resurrected in the past?

[Steel Inquisitor]

M'Day was a set back, Charles and Moira met way before M'Day. The fall in population with Genosha and M'Day made mutants population much smaller for yearsz that's why ORCHIS was only activated now. She didn't help anyone.

No-one's saying she did, it's about comparisons with Sinister. The man who committed genocide on the Morloks because he was insulted Dark Beast had interfered with "his work."

I mean, she's a character who fucks up lol. The grudge is because again she put herself before others, and she messed up again. She did screw up in the past, and I can appreciate trying to make amends, but the driving force behind it was seeking redemption for herself, not for the victims. And she used dark magic and forces she couldn't control to reach her goal and it backfired (again). And resurrecting 16 million mutants abruptly and in a barren land is also a very bad idea (see how Krakoa is handling Resurrections instead).

Marvel's definitely tried to make her a failure whenever she's done big things ever since Avengers: Disassembled, but if we cherry pick thing for when she does fail sure it looks like she can't do anything right. She's been trying to make amends for years, people still wanted to bury her under the prison. Still do, in fact. Excuses. There is no "appreciation" here just another opportunity to hit her while she's down. Trying to redeem herself for things she did, she's unrepentantly unforgivable - slaughtering mutants continuously and committing genocide against mutants without remorse, get a seat on the Quiet Council and your own Suicide Squad.

Weren't you talking about consent about being Resurrected in the past?

Sure. I agree she shouldn't have done it but it's not like if she gave Krakoa a ring she'd get support to do it right. With this Xavier he'd probably erase the thought and conversation from her mind once he heard about it.

[Glio]

The lesson is: You cannot fix a unilateral decision that affects millions of people with magic by using more magic to affect millions of people unilaterally.

[Veitha]

Then why are you defending her, Steel Inquisitor, and why do you keep bringing Sinister in the discussion? We get it, you don't like villains on the island. You also don't like context. Okay, let's move on.

The lesson is: You cannot fix a unilateral decision that affects millions of people with magic by using more magic to affect millions of people unilaterally.

This. And what Tycon said too:

Nah that’s just her overstepping boundaries. If you’ve affected a community in a particularly devastating way because of self, why try to solve the problem by yourself without the input of anyone from said impacted community. Wanda reminds me of those “former racists” who try be allies but talk over marginalized ppl.

[Glio]

Sinister is a villain but when he helps resurrect mutants they don't resurrect as zombies.

Just saying.

[Will Evans]

I miss the days of Mr. “Do I have to choke a bitch” Sinister.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Then why are you defending her, Steel Inquisitor, and why do you keep bringing Sinister in the discussion? We get it, you don't like villains on the island. You also don't like context. Okay, let's move on.

My argument has nuance, there's far more to it than Wanda = Good, Krakoa = Bad. Because people love Sinister here for doing the exact same things she does, only he means it. My context is fine, that's why you're stopped arguing. There is no good defense for characters like Sinister. People caring about context about villains being bad in Krakoa - that's funny.

This. And what Tycon said too:

Didn't hurt Apocalypse or Sinister or Magneto, did it? How many lives did they ruin, of various races, before they came to Krkaao?

[Veitha]

My argument has nuance, there's far more to it than Wanda = Bad, Krakoa = Good. Because people love Sinister here for doing the exact same things she does, only he means it. My context is fine, that's why you're stopped arguing. There is no good defense for characters like Sinister. People caring about context about villains being bad in Krakoa - that's funny.



Didn't hurt Apocalypse or Sinister or Magneto, did it? How many lives did they ruin, of various races, before they came to Krkaao?

Sinister is helping mutants with Resurrections!! It's undoing all the bad that humans and mutants did in the past. That's why your context is not fine, you're ignoring the most important thing.

[sunofdarkchild]

Wanda is not trying to undo what she did during M-Day. Dr. Strange shot her down for that. What she's trying to do is undo a different atrocity which she actually bears no responsibility for, but which she thinks would balance the scales for her action. She just went about it in probably the worst possible way.

The implications of her succeeding could also be problematic. I don't know what the population of Krakoa currently is, but I assume it's a small fraction of the 16 million mutants from Genosha. If they all suddenly came back, would that make Geneosha an independent nation again? Would they be separate from Krakoa, creating 2 mutant nations, or would they be incorporated into Krakoa? Either way the balance of global power would change drastically in a way not predicted by Xavier and the council.

With regards to people like Sinister being 'forgiven,' that's realpolitic. He's as much of an evil prick as ever, but they happen to need him. What makes Krakoan resurrection different is that they're building a new culture and morality around the fact that every mutant currently alive except for Kitty Pryde can and will come back almost immediately. It's not random or based on one person's decision. It's a central aspect of Krakoan culture everyone buys into.

[misty101]

Case in point. The grudge against her has nothing to do with protecting mutant life, it's about whether they like her.

And what's wrong with that?
X-fans hate Wanda, X-fans love Sinister.
It's hardly a newsflash moment, is it?