X-Men vs Avengers(Movie Versions)

[big_adventure]

I think taking away Wade's bullet timing post upgrade is a silly thing to do. He is literally the same character. Just with more stuff. He has all of one (real) movie appearance.

Him getting hit by slow people later isn't proof of much beyond normal inconsistency stuff. Like how DCEU Wonder Woman sometimes fights germans at less then slow mo speeds.

He has one fight scene before being transformed into a computer controlled whatever the hell he was. When he was Wade Wilson, he was a high-end bullet-timer.

He has one fight scene after he was literally transformed into a different being: a being that was commanded remotely, and had no free will at all, had a metal skeleton, had powers grafted into a shell of a human. In that scene, he never comes close to showing bullet-timing. He also never really shows that he's Wade Wilson. It's Wilson's body, but not his mind or abilities.

[big_adventure]

So your saying Shaw knew when the grenade would go off in his hands and not reacting to it? Or that he knew with pin point accuracy where a dozen plus Swat agents were and when to absorb every bullet of their Auto gun fire and the exact moment the Rocket would hit him while calculating when to absorb the thousands of bullets hitting him simultaneously? Shaws power is reactive and works without him knowing exactly where and when to start absorbing force.

Also Thor is not faster than Blink who again was multi tasking like crazy opening pin point portals against people mid attack at thought speed. Here against a single opponent she can definitely think portal before Thor finishes his physical moves to do his AOE then have it travel 100ft to hit her.

Also it's Adamantium from a Wolverine movie so all the feats Adamantium has in all his movies applies here. It's the same universe and same continuity so it wouldn't randomly get weaker or stronger because someone not Wolverine is using it.

Shaw is the one who pulled the pin in the grenade, so yeah, he ABSOLUTELY knew it was going to go off.

He doesn't need to know "with pinpoint accuracy" - he just clearly needs to turn on the power, and toward certain sources. Otherwise, it would just stop him moving relative to the planet earth and leave him floating somewhere out in space. It doesn't do that.

And again, yes, Thor exhibits some excellent reaction time, deflecting fast (though not necessarily bullet-fast) energy blasts with swings of his hammer multiple times across multiple movies. He embarrasses good fighters repeatedly with speed. He's not a speedster, likely not a bullet timer, but he's very quick. Blink is person-fast. Thor is faster.

[big_adventure]

Adamantium bullets can pierce adamantium skulls in that universe. Wolverine himself can effortlessly claw through 6 inches of reinforced steel plating. Like it's nothing. Like literal butter.

Adamantium cannot cut adamantium (without heat apparently) but pretty nearly cut anything else with no trouble.

I'm not suggesting Thor has compartmentalized durability. I dont think he does. But a bullet timing teleporter jamming a steel plate cutting blade into his eyes miiight get his attention.

Once again, though, it's granting a feat to a thing that has never shown that feat. I see why you are saying what you are saying. We just never see it. A blade would still need to be sharp enough and have enough force behind it. Much lower tier Asgardians than Thor laugh off razor-edged fighting knives wielded by highly skilled and trained people.

Also, Barakapool isn't Wade and isn't that fast - to me. I explained that above.

[Darth Drizzle]

Shaw is the one who pulled the pin in the grenade, so yeah, he ABSOLUTELY knew it was going to go off.

He doesn't need to know "with pinpoint accuracy" - he just clearly needs to turn on the power, and toward certain sources. Otherwise, it would just stop him moving relative to the planet earth and leave him floating somewhere out in space. It doesn't do that.

And again, yes, Thor exhibits some excellent reaction time, deflecting fast (though not necessarily bullet-fast) energy blasts with swings of his hammer multiple times across multiple movies. He embarrasses good fighters repeatedly with speed. He's not a speedster, likely not a bullet timer, but he's very quick. Blink is person-fast. Thor is faster.

If the grenade exploded instantly after pulling the pin then you would be correct, but that's not how grenades work. A random guy handed him a random grenade and Shaw not being a life long military man doesn't know exactly how long said grenade takes to explode after the pin is pulled.

Also how long do you think it takes him to "turn on" his powers and why would he need to direct it to certain sources? He has absorbed small bullets, large AOE blasts, exotic wide length energy blasts from Havok, and internal energy from a nuclear reactor. All of these are vastly different sources and different levels of power and he did the same thing with his powers to ALL of them. Which is he reacted to and absorbed them all with ease.

And again this is Thor from his first movie only and while he has good feats nothing he showed in that movie puts him above thought speed Blink who was making multiple portals at once at sizes big enough to cover her whole body. Though alot of her fight scenes were in slow motion so that might be what people are remembering of her

[Slade1]

Yeah, I'm not seeing Thor as being faster and also don't see why Barakapool and/or Blink can just teleport behind him.

[big_adventure]

If the grenade exploded instantly after pulling the pin then you would be correct, but that's not how grenades work. A random guy handed him a random grenade and Shaw not being a life long military man doesn't know exactly how long said grenade takes to explode after the pin is pulled.

Also how long do you think it takes him to "turn on" his powers and why would he need to direct it to certain sources? He has absorbed small bullets, large AOE blasts, exotic wide length energy blasts from Havok, and internal energy from a nuclear reactor. All of these are vastly different sources and different levels of power and he did the same thing with his powers to ALL of them. Which is he reacted to and absorbed them all with ease.

And again this is Thor from his first movie only and while he has good feats nothing he showed in that movie puts him above thought speed Blink who was making multiple portals at once at sizes big enough to cover her whole body. Though alot of her fight scenes were in slow motion so that might be what people are remembering of her

Speed: Thor deflects two energy blasts at relatively close range with SWINGS of his hammer, after they are fired, while multitasking a lot (flying, making a storm, manipulating the Destroyer). I measured those by counting frames and gauging distance, and the speed is pretty bullet-y, though counting frames isn't the best way of gauging stuff.

Shaw knowing how a grenade works: Shaw was a soldier in the German army before anyone else in the movie was born. It was kind of the central plot point: he was there, in the army, and used that position to experiment on people, including Erik.

And nearly ANYONE knows how a grenade works. Pull pin, eject spoon (which happens automatically if you don't hold it down), grenade explodes shortly after.

And he never once absorbs something he's not prepared for. And you were the one claiming that he could absorb things like being picked up: but if that's the case, then he'd be absorbing gravity and rotational force and Earth's relative velocity in the universe - so he'd be off the planet and stuck motionless in space. So yeah, he has to turn it on. Which he can do very rapidly: I never said otherwise.

[big_adventure]

Yeah, I'm not seeing Thor as being faster and also don't see why Barakapool and/or Blink can just teleport behind him.

And do what, other then eat a 360 degree AoE in the face?

[The Drunkard Kid]

While I definitely side with big_adventure on Weapon XI not having Wade Wilson's feats, he was still fast enough to easily keep up with both Wolverine (who was shown to be an arrow-timer in The Wolverine after several decades of not remembering the century+ of military experience that he had in that fight scene) and Sabretooth attacking him simultaneously, so I think its safe to say that his reaction speeds are at least on par with Thor's.

Normally I'd say that Dudepeel could just teleport so that his adamantium blades/limbs appeared inside of Thor, however the Sabretooth/Wraith fight showed that that would just end up with Thor being unharmed while Van Deadpool would just materialize around him (unless Creed actually was damaged, but just healed better than Wraith did, but I don't remember if we even saw his hand after he grabbed Wraith's spine).

EDIT: Also, counting the Deadpool shooting Weapon XI dead at the end of Deadpool 2 as canon to the actual X-Men Origins: Wolverine version of the character doesn't make any sense since A) that was a 4th wall breaking gag, B) because if it wasn't, then Wade himself would be dead, and C) in any case the Deadpool film version of Wade Wilson was a normal human being that wasn't anywhere near old enough to be part of Stryker's unit and didn't get powers until the modern X-Men era rather than back when Cyclops was still a kid.

[The Arbiter]

TDK brings up a good point. Those teleportation powers allowed simultaneous overlap of matter.

Wade could just fuse with Thor into a horrible ball of meat and metal.

Also, I'm still not sure we should just wave away the guy's bullet time speed post upgrade. It was an upgrade after all. He was still Wade. He never died and resurrected as a new entity. Stryker was feeding him orders, sure, but he wasn't piloting him like a mech. He had free autonomy of thought and action to accomplish his objectives as he saw best.

Maybe I'm outvoted but it just feels weird to say he should lose something after he has been explicitly enhanced with just more things.

[The Drunkard Kid]

TDK brings up a good point. Those teleportation powers allowed simultaneous overlap of matter.

Wade could just fuse with Thor into a horrible ball of meat and metal.

Also, I'm still not sure we should just wave away the guy's bullet time speed post upgrade. It was an upgrade after all. He was still Wade. He never died and resurrected as a new entity. Stryker was feeding him orders, sure, but he wasn't piloting him like a mech. He had free autonomy of thought and action to accomplish his objectives as he saw best.

Maybe I'm outvoted but it just feels weird to say he should lose something after he has been explicitly enhanced with just more things.

It's more that this took place years later, with Weapon XI not really having time to practice and get used to his limbs now having additional weight and blades that were a lot less maneuverable than his previous katana (as now all his swings relied on the movement of his forearm/bicep/shoulder while before a lot of his more fancy stuff was based on the movements of his wrists, which could no longer be a part of how used his wrist blades).

[The Drunkard Kid]

Also, the slowly pushing a thumb through Shaw's head wouldn't work unless there was a telepath turning off his powers in order to protect his friend (and keep said guy from going nuclear) even though it meant that he felt that coin getting slowly pushed through his own brain due to being connected to Shaw's brain at the time that said friend was doing exactly that. But just putting Mjolnir on him should work just fine to 10 count him (provided that Shaw hasn't absorbed enough force beforehand to just dig himself out from under Mjolnir at an angle) since that isn't a function of extreme force being applied so much as it just refusing to move to anyone who isn't worthy due to magic, and shouldn't give him a notable power boost. [EDIT: Thor can then very gently block a pinned Shaw's nose and mouth until he suffocates, as that wouldn't give him enough kinetic energy to break Thor's grip strength.

Does anyone know how much energy a submarine based nuclear reactor from the 60s outputs at full blast? Because that's the largest thing that we saw Shaw absorb at one time, and he was able to do it for an extended period with the intent to absorb enough of it to go full nuke, IIRC.

The Jotunheim blow, while fairly impressive, still took a little bit of time for Thor to charge up by spinning Mjolnir, and a large part of the damage may have indirect since we saw that the entire structure they were on was a sheet of ice above a cavern, so Thor blowing a decently large hole in it seemed to have caused it to start collapsing due to structural destabilization rather than sheer power. I think that ignoring a PO'd Magneto's attempts to smash the Nazi who murdered his mother in front of him with metal girders, as well as casually pinning Magneto to the wall with a *metal* girder as well (also, as evidence that Xavier was actively turning off Shaw's powers during the coin scene, the girder dropped pretty much instantly after Xavier took hold of his mind), within minutes of Magneto getting his mental breakthrough and being able to lift a nuclear submarine completely out of the water backwards (so going against its own forward propulsion) and carry it hundreds of yards to the shore quite possibly dealt with at least as much force needed to replicate the Jotunheim blow, though its hard to tell since we don't know exactly how much force he was explicitly using at the time.