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  1. #496
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    ...

    Based on how the two countries relate to each other in diplomatic affairs. Wakanda should be an easier state to form a partnership with, like I said Magneto and T'Challa have a relationship and Storm is there. Read more titles than X-men.

    ...
    There are literally zero reasons that there should be a better chance at diplomacy there.

  2. #497
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    Yeah, I agree. This is like Sol Hammer or the Stark Sentinels. Reed and Tony are completely free to do what they want without caring about consequences. It was about time someone put one of them in their place.

    This event was pointless but I was happy to see the X-Men come out of it as heroes and Sue acknowledging she over reacted (yo anti-Krakoan CBR-ers, even Sue said she did too much).
    I mean they're the same guys who made SPIN as part of Civil War. I'm surprised people trust them as much as they do.

  3. #498
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    Quote Originally Posted by RachelGrey View Post
    Also, we forget that part of the reason Magneto was so unstable on Avalon is because he found out Moira messed with his head, this is canon and happened at the time! He couldn't trust that anything he was doing was his own choice or Moira's programming and it made him paranoid and may have had him have a mental breakdown! They even showed that during the Avalon storyline, Magneto was unstable and it was so bad that Xavier did the only thing he could think of to stop him, Xavier wiped Magneto's mind!
    Moira raised him not to think that he should conquer and kill humanity, which he took as an affront because he could be an improved person on who he was.



    Why are you giving him the benefit fo a doubt over Moira? Magneto was mentally unstable long before Moira arrived on the scene. She tried to help him overcome this.

    This is focused primarily on how he sees the world, what about how others see him?

    Even after Magneto recovered several years later, he was on and off in conflict with the X-Men! During Avengers Disassembled Magneto was so worried about Wanda that he whisked her away to Xavier and this is where it was 100% confirmed that Magneto was not responsible for what happened in New York because he was actually laying low at the time trying to figure himself out after getting his mind back! New York was a result of Xorn being angry at Magneto for not rising up to lead mutants, so he stole Magneto's name!
    You've jumped over years of him being a super-villain, as in reversed the Earth's poles to shut everything down and trying to conquer humanity from Genosha. Calling his actions at that time "on and off again conflict" is minimising his actions in that period. Yes, magneto wasn't reosnsible for what he did in New York City in Morrison's run, he can't blame everything bad he did on being Xorn.

    So Magneto rescued Wanda from the judgement of the Avengers and took her to Xavier in the hopes that Charles could somehow help Wanda recover mentally! But when Quicksilver found out that Wanda and Magneto had been tracked to the ruins of Genosha he rushed to his sister and convinced her to create the House of M! After the world reset, Magneto lost his temper with Pietro and was angry at him for using a very unstable Wanda to change reality when Wanda was so mentally unstable so he struck Pietro down! Wanda was unstable and saw her brother die so she punished her father by doing "no More Mutants"!
    Yes.

    Magneto went on a long journey to get his powers back with the help of the High Evolutionary! Finally his journey brought him to Utopia and he decided to support Scott's leadership! Magneto has been helping the X-Men ever since!
    Magneto attacked the X-men with Sentinels once he got his powers back artificially from the High Revolutionary. Utopia wasn't the entire X-men, they were divided. And he made an alliance with HYDRA when they conquered America, and Norman Osborn when he was in the government.

    Even when he decided to become a "villain" again, it was because he saw the future, he was going to draw the human hate onto himself and free as many mutants as possible from the human governments imprisoning, experimenting on, and killing mutants!
    That's just Magneto justifying his same actions. At some point he also became a villain again in X-men: Blue in the "Cry Havoc" and "Surviving the Experience" storylines.


    Magneto attacked several mutant detention centres that the US Government had built and freed all of the illegally imprisoned mutants and killed the O.N.E. agents that were killing and experimenting on mutants!
    Which is great.

    Magneto came at Jean's request to help in X-Men Disassembled to fight X-Man and Legion! That is why Magneto was also pulled into the Age of X-Man because he was standing with Jean during the event!
    The fact he was able to assist the X-men every so often didn't erase the years worth of horrible things he did on purpose. This sort of thing is how Doom makes propaganda for himself as being a "hero."

    When they all returned, Magneto stood with the other heroes after helping Scott defeat the O.N.E. forces and freeing all of the imprisoned mutants! Obviously Moira and Charles reach out to him soon after this to try again with a unified front, and so the three of them layed down the plan to help the mutants flee the world wide genocide to Krakoa!

    So yeah, Magneto has been a villain a few times, but he is also a passionate freedom fighter for mutant rights in the face of continuous human attempts at genocide! He allies with the X-Men multiple times, and he has even helped save the world several times! He uses morally questionable tactics, he is an arrogant prick, and kind of a narcissist sometimes, but he genuinely wants to help his fellow mutants, and he is willing to set aside his vendetta against human racism by trying to do things a bit more peacefully as Charles wants!
    This dilutes how far his acts have gone for his goals, it's not like he was a bank robber. Many teroriests think they're "freedom fighters," because who want to really join Team Evil? Magneto's very good at convincing people to commit terrorist acts in his name. None of this stops him from being a villain, Doom does the same sort of thing but nobody thinks he's a good guy. "Morally questionable" suggest his morals are being questioned, they're not. This post has been very kind in articulating Magneto's past while rating how brutal he's been and implied most of his life he's been on the right side of history - by fighting the X-men. And this ignores his god complex. How many tires has he tried to conquer the world you think? Magneto's principles have a moral backing, it's his methods, that includes murder, which make him a villain.

    This is the novel of Magneto's life, a story that took several years to right, has setbacks and progress for his character, but there is also growth, and a growing development of understanding with all of the X-Men! He has also realized how badly he messed up with Pietro and Wanda, to the point that Wanda erased their relationship from reality! They even showed how haunted he was by this in the Age of X-Man when he and Storm were both remembering the old universe! Magneto was having dreams of Pietro and Wanda and kept scratching at the surface of the Age of X-Man reality! Now that Magneto is back in the normal reality he is working harder to work with Charles and follow Charles' lead! Magneto is also trying really hard to repair his relationship with Lorna and to fully acknowledge that he needs Lorna in his life!
    Too much whitewashing to make it as though his life hasn't been defined by his villainy. Including torturing and killing X-men, fellow mutants. Was "Eve of Destruction" a set back? Set back feels too kind to call it that. He's made progress, your'e right but that is far from what he needs to be fully redeemed. Instead his killing is endorsed by the X-men in Krakoa, his actions are no longer bother them. He's also back to intimidating humans, and getting Xavier to act more like him. And not in the good sense. Forgot, he likes putting himself at the top of nations - this is his third go at it and he hansn't been elected to that position once.

    Magneto is a flawed man, and he makes terrible mistakes, but at the same time when times are tough he often rises above his own faults to be a hero for both mutants and humans!
    Except he's not a hero. How many people does he have to kill before he's a villain?

  4. #499
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Tell me, how many of those are mutants? Diversity in Marvel is more than skin color.
    Here's the lineup list from Wikipedia. The only human that was a member of Excalibur for more than 4 issues is Juggernaut....a villain.

    Buuuut If you wanna give this
    100%white
    100% Heterosexual
    team 'snaps' for being Diverse I can't stop you...just sideeye a bit
    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Krakoa has bureaucracy, it's just has so many holes in it. No-one is saying let everyone in, or do you think mutants are too stupid to create their own system to check people? It's incredibly easy.
    lol They already have those...they're the Krakoan Gates. Jeez


    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    You don't speak for the majority of the fans and no, you're not talking about canon.
    Eh until theres a majority of fans demoting Magneto as a straight up villain...I'd say that I do. And it seems I'm the only one 'talking about canon'
    Like.
    Fer.
    Real.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Stop making straw men.
    I will, if you stop using that as an excuse to not respond when your ridiculous, baseless, 'facts' are called out as false

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    He wanted to use them and the Hellfire Club to conquer the world. New Mutants #75.
    The world of mutantdom, to control the when/how mutants step onto the world stage and control the trajectory on a global scale of the welfare of his people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Everyone knows he tried to become a villain again in the distant past of 2018.

    Then it should be no problem to list the litany of vile deeds Magneto is guilty of doing at this point in time
    ....

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Except he's not a hero. How many people does he have to kill before he's a villain?
    Well the Pretender killed untold Billions across the multiverse and she's still....
    Ya know what nvm.
    lol
    GrindrStone(D)

  5. #500
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    Here's the lineup list from Wikipedia. The only human that was a member of Excalibur for more than 4 issues is Juggernaut....a villain.

    Buuuut If you wanna give this
    100%white
    100% Heterosexual
    team 'snaps' for being Diverse I can't stop you...just sideeye a bit
    Excalibur is one of the more diverse teams. They've had aliens and humans, including Brian Braddock, Moira MacTaggert and Dane Whitman. Have you read classic Excalibur? Under Krakoa's current regime this sort of diversity wouldn't be possible. Except in our arguments about diversity in Krakoa is viewed as wrong. And yes, X-men as a whole have had problems with diversity with being white and straight. Don't straw man my position as though wanting more non-mutant representation isn't also about wanting more representation with LGBT and non-white characters.

    Hey, if Kamala Khan can get on Excalibur I'd be thrilled!



    lol They already have those...they're the Krakoan Gates. Jeez
    It's far from perfect, and the whole island is leaking like sieve, despite the fact it's sentient. All non-humans have to do is find its location and a boat and they'll get there fine.

    Eh until theres a majority of fans demoting Magneto as a straight up villain...I'd say that I do. And it seems I'm the only one 'talking about canon'
    Like.
    Fer.
    Real.

    I will, if you stop using that as an excuse to not respond when your ridiculous, baseless, 'facts' are called out as false
    All you speak for is yourself. This forum caring about canon, that's a good one lol

    The world of mutantdom, to control the when/how mutants step onto the world stage and control the trajectory on a global scale of the welfare of his people.
    By killing people on a global scale, including X-men. What a hero. You realise conquering the world is what villains do? We're not supposed to be be supporting Doom when he tries to do this. This isn't about control, it's about domination. Power absolute. Global dictatorship. The X-men were formed to stop this sort of thing because it hurts everyone, including mutants.



    Then it should be no problem to list the litany of vile deeds Magneto is guilty of doing at this point in time
    ....
    I've gone over them in meticulous detail in this thread and others, you won't listen. I'd tell you to read the specific storylines but we both know you know them anyway.

    Well the Pretender killed untold Billions across the multiverse and she's still....
    Ya know what nvm.
    lol
    This would mean more if known villains with large bodycounts weren't celebrated. This isn't about deaths, this is about who is liked more and Scarlet Witch's biggest crime was choosing the Avengers over the X-men. Meanwhile, Apocalypse tries to destroy humanity...

  6. #501
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    Prioritizing the "right to tourism" to the right to security of a minority is the whitest thing I have read in this forum.

  7. #502
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Excalibur is one of the more diverse teams. They've had aliens and humans, including Brian Braddock, Moira MacTaggert and Dane Whitman..
    Errr only one of those characters is Human and he only was on the team for 4 issues. So not really seeing your point, but anyway Aliens count as diversity these days? Thats like asking someone to pick from any of the variety of fruit to eat. With the choices being Apple, Apple, Apple, box of rusted nails, Apple and an Apple
    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Have you read classic Excalibur? Under Krakoa's current regime this sort of diversity wouldn't be possible. Except in our arguments about diversity in Krakoa is viewed as wrong.
    You mean the 100 issue run that didn't have onenon-white mutant join the team? If that sort of thing isn't possible with this current run than Yeah! I'm all for it lol but if having a team composition like Classic Excalibur is one of the aspects you miss about previous X-Runs than :cringe:

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    And yes, X-men as a whole have had problems with diversity with being white and straight.
    Buuuut the whitest and straightest X-team is a diversity win?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Don't straw man my position as though wanting more non-mutant representation isn't also about wanting more representation with LGBT and non-white characters. .
    They just can't be mutants?
    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    It's far from perfect, and the whole island is leaking like sieve, despite the fact it's sentient. All non-humans have to do is find its location and a boat and they'll get there fine. .
    So wait now you're purporting that KraKoa is easily accessible to Humans?!?!


    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    By killing people on a global scale, including X-men. What a hero. You realise conquering the world is what villains do? We're not supposed to be be supporting Doom when he tries to do this. This isn't about control, it's about domination. Power absolute. Global dictatorship. The X-men were formed to stop this sort of thing because it hurts everyone, including mutants.
    In the context of New Mutants 75 Magneto is talking less about Total Global Dominance and more about controlling the Mutant 'image' or Zeitgeist

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    This would mean more if known villains with large bodycounts weren't celebrated. This isn't about deaths, this is about who is liked more and Scarlet Witch's biggest crime was choosing the Avengers over the X-men. Meanwhile, Apocalypse tries to destroy humanity...
    So because X-Villains like Apocalypse and Sinister are on better terms within the XFam, and are welcome on KraKoa whereas she isnt, It must be an example of mutant bigotry against Humans? Couldn't be the fact the Pretender came pretty close to Obliterating the mutant race, and seems to be determined to maintain and excel at being an all around crummy person.



    Has the Pretender came close to showing this kinda remorse for Anything? yet she continues on 'Hero-ing'

    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    Prioritizing the "right to tourism" to the right to security of a minority is the whitest thing I have read in this forum.
    Bruuuuuh that's what I'm like.....
    GrindrStone(D)

  8. #503
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    Errr only one of those characters is Human and he only was on the team for 4 issues. So not really seeing your point, but anyway Aliens count as diversity these days? Thats like asking someone to pick from any of the variety of fruit to eat. With the choices being Apple, Apple, Apple, box of rusted nails, Apple and an Apple
    You mean the 100 issue run that didn't have onenon-white mutant join the team? If that sort of thing isn't possible with this current run than Yeah! I'm all for it lol but if having a team composition like Classic Excalibur is one of the aspects you miss about previous X-Runs than :cringe:
    They're all human, Moira hasn't been a mutant since Hickman's retcon. Pretending to be uninformed about X-men history is getting old. In Marvel they do, its not like mutants are a real species in our world. Don't warp my words to create straw men. Othering really isn't a good look, especially when they're minorities themselves. Vol.1 went to 125, but for someone who's supposed to have read it there's not much respect or knowledge about it here.

    Buuuut the whitest and straightest X-team is a diversity win?
    No, that'd be the 05 pre-Bendis.



    It also had Kitty Pryde, who is Jewish, Meggan who is Roma and Brian Braddock, who is human.



    Completely ignore that I'd be ok with more diversity in LGBT and non-white representation but asking for that would be too much effort.

    They just can't be mutants?
    Why? What's wrong with non-white and LGBT representation non-mutants in X-men comics?

    So wait now you're purporting that KraKoa is easily accessible to Humans?!?!
    It's already been infiltrated by humans in the recent past.

    In the context of New Mutants 75 Magneto is talking less about Total Global Dominance and more about controlling the Mutant 'image' or Zeitgeist
    So much so the New Mutants went to war with him about it. Why don't you take their side in that conflict?

    So because X-Villains like Apocalypse and Sinister are on better terms within the XFam, and are welcome on KraKoa whereas she isnt, It must be an example of mutant bigotry against Humans? Couldn't be the fact the Pretender came pretty close to Obliterating the mutant race, and seems to be determined to maintain and excel at being an all around crummy person.
    Yeah. Being a "crummy person" is a plus for being on Krakoa, mutants who try to commit genocide like those two are given the highest privileges. The defense against Wanda is blunted when the person who tried to destroy the Morlocks gets a pass. It's telling that when these two do the same crimes they don't merit the slightest disapproval.


    Has the Pretender came close to showing this kinda remorse for Anything? yet she continues on 'Hero-ing'
    Cherrypicking. This does raise the question, how do you feel when he defends her? I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you about Wanda since your bias against her and the Avengers is unbreakable. Maybe if was a man she'd be getting a pass like Doom and Quicksilver.

    Bruuuuuh that's what I'm like.....
    I'll get to that post later on.
    Last edited by Steel Inquisitor; 08-01-2020 at 07:55 AM.

  9. #504
    Mighty Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    It also had Kitty Pryde, who is Jewish, Meggan who is Roma and Brian Braddock, who is human.
    God tier trolling.

  10. #505
    BANNED misty101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frobisher View Post
    God tier trolling.
    *throws head back and CACKLES*

  11. #506
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    To be honest, if your only criticism of a super-team is not having dark enough skin... you're grasping at straws. Ethnic diversity is more than skin deep.

  12. #507

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    That was a large image of Wanda and I was not ready for it. I need a drink.
    Boop! Krakoa forever!

  13. #508
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Brian Braddock is diverse? :confused:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post
    That was a large image of Wanda and I was not ready for it. I need a drink.

  14. #509

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    You are a gem.
    Boop! Krakoa forever!

  15. #510
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    Aristocrat white anglo saxon protestant with blond hair and blue eyes, of course he needs represantion.

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