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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Default Best and worst power changes?

    Or power creep, whichever you prefer. Some got entirely new powers, sometimes the powers they already had changed, and sometimes they lost some powers. I'm only referring to lasting changes here, not one-offs or new powers that quickly disappeared.

    So, what you some that you think were good and bad ideas?

    Superman is the classic case. I'm so mired in his later powersets, that I can only sort of look at the older, lesser ones in an almost academic sense. I was introduced to Superman through movies, cartoons, and general pop culture from birth, so it is to some degree, just what he's supposed to be. Besides that, though, I can say there are certain types of stories that his higher power level enabled, and other types of stories - or at least actions - that didn't work anymore after he got powerful enough.

    Raven is another one who got more powers. While I watched the Teen Titans cartoon, I've mostly forgotten it, and was reintroduced to the character through reading the 1980s series, and I think she works better with powers she had when I was introduced to her. You'll see that theme a lot from me. But I don't think I'd call her increased powers anywhere near the worst.

    Kon - now there's one where I'll say his increased powers were a severe detriment. To me they are part and parcel of making him a Clark clone (rather literally, at least 50%), which I dislike a lot. But also his original power of TTK was a lot more unique and fun to read as something different and it enabled some vulnerabilities, which I think is a good idea.

    I'll go opposite on Fire, and pick after Invasion. Perhaps because I haven't read much of Bea before the changeup. I admit, my preference on this is mostly because I like the visual. My feelings are not strong on the matter, though.

    Very much against speed thief, electrokinesis , and scouts. They're already really, super powerful because of their speed, and don't need more additions.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 07-24-2020 at 10:52 AM.

  2. #2
    Ultimate Member Gaius's Avatar
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    I'd put Batman's "prep time" power under the worst changes.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    I'd put Batman's "prep time" power under the worst changes.
    Is that a change when that guy used to have shark repellant for the right occasion?

  4. #4
    DC/Collected Editions Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    Is that a change when that guy used to have shark repellant for the right occasion?
    Batman has always been about prep time to some level. To not be would be asinine, IMO.
    A bat! That's it! It's an omen.. I'll shall become a bat!

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    Is that a change when that guy used to have shark repellant for the right occasion?
    Before it was anti sharks, now it is anti gods.

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    The Signal's current dark powers. They aren't bad per se, and are fitting for a Bat-family meta... but they are a downgrade for me compared to his light powers which made him more unique and linked to many an Immortal, which opened plenty of possibilities for Duke as a solo character.

  7. #7
    duke's casettetape lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    The Signal's current dark powers. They aren't bad per se, and are fitting for a Bat-family meta... but they are a downgrade for me compared to his light powers which made him more unique and linked to many an Immortal, which opened plenty of possibilities for Duke as a solo character.
    I was just about to pick this one, but I would go a step further and say that the darkness powers are actually detrimental to the character because it muddies the waters for a character that is still establishing themselves. what makes the shadow powers a problem is two fold:

    for one, the darkness powers have zero tangible effect on anything. with his light powers they have a tangible effect, they allow him to see things others can't see, making him a better detective, and they make him a better fighter. on the other hand we have the shadow powers that appear to do nothing but have Duke be a distraction while other characters do the actual fighting. that relegates him to a permanent second class role because it appears he can't win a battle without someone else there to do the actual work; which isn't interesting to see in a character that was pitched to audiences as Batman training a new up and coming hero.

    the second thing is, it throws everything they've built up for Duke out the window. the light powers served a thematic purpose, Duke is supposed to be a counterpoint to the usual shadowy bat archetype of Batman. that idea of him being the opposite of Batman thematically is why his suit is the way it is: why it's bright, why it's yellow and black as an opposite to the black and yellow of Batman's N52 chest symbol, why his chest symbol is reflective, it all is to highlight that motif of light to contract the Batfamily's darkness (which has always been my problem with Duke's costume having so much bat iconography but that's a different story). the "brilliant" idea to demote him to just another shadowy bat which these nebulous shadow powers undercuts that. then that's coupled with how they have been used to give him less agency in the field, it pushes the character further into the background as just another shadowy bat-character which is antithetical to what the character is supposed to represent.

    they don't symbolize anything, they don't do anything, and they don't generate intrigue for the character, so what's the point of changing something so fundamental to the character? there doesnt appear to be any rhyme or reason for it it just feels like Hill wanted to nix the light powers because he thought the shadow thing would be cool, and it's objectively not. by nixing that unique element of his character it muddies the waters as to what this character is supposed to be and decreases the likelihood of him growing in his identity and establishing himself. for a character this relatively unrefined, that kind of mixed messaging is not something they can afford so early in their career. add on top of that that he has spent every issue of Hill's run getting beaten up, punked, and/or generally having no agency, it all amounts to effectively just character assassination whether Hill intended to do it or not.
    Last edited by lemonpeace; 07-26-2020 at 06:45 PM.
    THE SIGNAL (Duke Thomas) is DC's secret shonen protagonist so I made him a fandom wiki

    also, check out "The Signal Tape" a Duke Thomas fan project.

    currently following:
    • DC: Red Hood: The Hill
    • Marvel: TBD
    • Manga (Shonen/Seinen): One Piece, My Hero, Dandadan, Jujutsu Kaisen, Kaiju No. 8, Reincarnation of The Veteran Soldier, Oblivion Rouge, ORDEAL, The Breaker: Eternal Force

    "power does not corrupt, power always reveals."

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    Is that a change when that guy used to have shark repellant for the right occasion?
    Yes.

    The shark repellent was in the Bat-copter on a mission that required they fly out over the ocean. It's not like he had it in his utility belt while he was in the middle of Gotham.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective
    Is Batman has always been about prep time to some level. To not be would be asinine, IMO.
    To some level yes, but it's ridiculous to have him always have exactly the right tool to deal with any problem anywhere. In the above example, bringing shark repellent while heading out to sea, sure that makes sense. Having it on his person while he's in the middle of Gotham does not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh
    like the girl from My Hero Academia,
    Her name is Ochaco Uraraka.
    Last edited by hareluyafan1; 07-26-2020 at 06:00 AM.

  9. #9
    DC/Collected Editions Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hareluyafan1 View Post
    To some level yes, but it's ridiculous to have him always have exactly the right tool to deal with any problem anywhere. In the above example, bringing shark repellent while heading out to sea, sure that makes sense. Having it on his person while he's in the middle of Gotham does not.
    I don't consider anything from the show's universe worth talking about in this context, since that was a de facto comedy (even nominated for an Emmy as such!)
    A bat! That's it! It's an omen.. I'll shall become a bat!

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    I don't consider anything from the show's universe worth talking about in this context, since that was a de facto comedy (even nominated for an Emmy as such!)
    Beg your pardon but then why did you agree with KNIGHT OF THE LAKE when they first brought it up?

    Anyway, I'll add Dolphin's bio-luminescence power. It was a great way to add distinction to her power-set in terms of what she brings to the table and also provides a way for her to communicate despite her muteness.
    Last edited by hareluyafan1; 07-26-2020 at 10:19 AM.

  11. #11
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    Nice thread idea, Tzigone

    I remember in Justice League of America back in the Satellite era (JLA 191), Zatanna's powers were reduced to her only having magic powers that were element based or something like that.

    While I admit that she was becoming too powerful, the reduced powers were sort of a letdown at the time.


  12. #12
    Ultimate Member Riv86672's Avatar
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    Not powers, but Green Arriw ditching his trick arsenal for traditional arrows under Mike Grell was pretty cool.

    Speed steal for the Flash I’ve always found ridiculous (if only for how overused it’s become on versus forums). He’s already the fastest man alive. It would be like the Hulk developing strength drain.
    Last edited by Riv86672; 07-24-2020 at 10:37 AM.

  13. #13
    Hey Baby--Wha's Happ'nin? HandofPrometheus's Avatar
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    Fire- The nostril flame thing was stupid and ridiculously corny. I wouldn't have a problem if her Fire was still mystical but the whole breathing thing looked dumb. Plus, she looks visually appealing and stands out with her modern day powers.

  14. #14
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    It's largely forgotten now, well, like a lot of Power Girl stuff, but way back in the day before she was restored to her rightful place as a Kryptonian, her powers...sometimes changed, without explanation. There was a one off power that allowed her to fly other people...alongside her, without touching them, which she used in a very early issue of BOP to fly Black Canary. She also exhibited a power shown in the art, but not referred to in dialog where she somehow generated an explosion. Another one off power. Then there were the sudden new unexplained weaknesses that PAD gave her after being forced to by DC for some reason. All pretty bad since they were unexplained, and largey either one offs, or used for about two issues.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandofPrometheus View Post
    Fire- The nostril flame thing was stupid and ridiculously corny. I wouldn't have a problem if her Fire was still mystical but the whole breathing thing looked dumb. Plus, she looks visually appealing and stands out with her modern day powers.
    While the fire coming out of her nose was indeed just awful, she could also breathe it out of her mouth, which looked far less silly, and as 'Green Fury' she could breathe hot flame, cold flame, create illusions, change her costume, or fly.

    Then Giffen got his hands on her, changed her name to 'Fire' and she could create a six inch tongue of flame from her mouth.

    Worst power change, ever.

    After that, she got upgraded again, and turned into a green Human Torch. (Catch on fire, fly, shoot fire blasts.) So terribly unoriginal, and, IMO, a huge downgrade from where she started, all those years ago, in Super Friends.

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