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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Yeah---(sigh)---he does this over-and-over with Power Girl too.
    No-never done that...

    Just said how it is-she is stronger than WW, but WW is more experienced in battle...

    You are doing that with WW...

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperX View Post
    I feel bad for anyone who thinks the original kesel superboy wasn't interesting and fun as hell. Sure geoffs Conner is great also, and awesome as what the Young Justice and Titans are based off of, but let's not act like kesels SB wasn't a fun read, and his TTK wasnt supposed to make him God level powerful, it was supposed to make him feel different than a kryptonian, and get him out of all the jams he got into.
    He is fun to read, because I see it not as permament status, but know that there will be TT etc. afterwards.

    So YJ is the FIRST step for me...

    Some parts of younger Conner are almost unreadable for me (when he is the extreme clown with the Batman Paperbag mask etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I've seen your posts before Masterff - you love the YJ team (though not actually in YJ) and always want them to be more powerful. More powerful than older heroes, explicitly. The most powerful in the DC universe. God-like powerful. A lot of people do like that, and many are always angling for ways to make their character more powerful than everyone else in appreciation threads. It's just not my thing. I think many characters have been powered up to the point that it's much more difficult to do interesting stories with them without threatening the entire planet. I like vulnerabilities, find the stories more interesting, and frankly find long-range attacks generally less visually interesting to watch than short or mid-range.
    1. I didnt say most powerful beings in the Universe, but equal, probably more powerful than their predecessors-yes....
    Conner could also be slightly less powerful than Clark or so....(Conner aged up)

    2. One thing what Animes/Mangas do MUCH better than Comics (and I strongly believe that they are more popular, because of it) is that they show young people try to become more powerful etc. than their predecessors.
    Its like in Dragon Ball etc. etc. where the young people train, become stronger etc. etc.

    Comics are to static in this sense for me....

    3. I like the old Young Justice Series, but ONLY as first step for them...

    4. I actually HATE the Justice League and how they are portrayed etc.
    Wonder Woman is the personification of perfection for example, strong powerful, beautiful etc.

    If you want to talk about being to powerful than start with them...

    I also hate how they get sometimes displayed compared with their "Side-kicks" etc.
    They are perfect, are always in command (like seen in Titans, when they disbanded them) and they are flawless etc.

    5. If we compare the JL-YJ 1:1 I ABSOLUTELY!!! think that the YJ have the simply better written characters:

    -Clark is seen as the blue boy-scout, while Conner has the simply better origin and because of being a clone of Clark and Lex he also has MUCH more interesting possibilities for the future.
    Conner IS the more interesting character, because he can fullfill ANY role (Villain,Superhero,Anti-Hero) and you can do things with him which you CANT do with Clark..

    I LOVE the idea for example of Conner being a Super-Hero, but a more ruthless Version of Superman who also uses yellow lantern ring for example.

    He also has the better girlfriend than Clark...

    -I dont like Diana and I always thougt that Cassandra is the more likeable character, I also think that she looks better as Wonder Woman than Diana does and if we look at Pre-Flashpoint Origins, she was simply more interesting than Diana.
    We have never seen how powerful Cassandra is at full level and I prefered her lasso to the other 2.

    -I also prefer Bart over Barry

    6. Especially now, as we have Kenan Kong,Jonathan Kent,Wallace West,Emiko....it makes sense to make YJ more powerful, because Kenan,Jonathan,Wallace,Emiko... are already (probably) more powerful than them...


    TT were almost perfect in this sense for me...

  2. #77
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    No-never done that...

    Just said how it is-she is stronger than WW, but WW is more experienced in battle.........
    Yes, yes you do that and are continuing to do that now.

    Yes, WW is more battle experienced than PG. And guess what? WW is MUCH stronger than PG too!

    But since this is not that other thread where you endlessly repeat things about PG, best not to derail this thread by restating it all here, yet again.

  3. #78
    Amazing Member SuperX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    No-never done that...

    Just said how it is-she is stronger than WW, but WW is more experienced in battle...

    You are doing that with WW...



    He is fun to read, because I see it not as permament status, but know that there will be TT etc. afterwards.

    So YJ is the FIRST step for me...

    Some parts of younger Conner are almost unreadable for me (when he is the extreme clown with the Batman Paperbag mask etc.)



    1. I didnt say most powerful beings in the Universe, but equal, probably more powerful than their predecessors-yes....
    Conner could also be slightly less powerful than Clark or so....(Conner aged up)

    2. One thing what Animes/Mangas do MUCH better than Comics (and I strongly believe that they are more popular, because of it) is that they show young people try to become more powerful etc. than their predecessors.
    Its like in Dragon Ball etc. etc. where the young people train, become stronger etc. etc.

    Comics are to static in this sense for me....

    3. I like the old Young Justice Series, but ONLY as first step for them...

    4. I actually HATE the Justice League and how they are portrayed etc.
    Wonder Woman is the personification of perfection for example, strong powerful, beautiful etc.

    If you want to talk about being to powerful than start with them...

    I also hate how they get sometimes displayed compared with their "Side-kicks" etc.
    They are perfect, are always in command (like seen in Titans, when they disbanded them) and they are flawless etc.

    5. If we compare the JL-YJ 1:1 I ABSOLUTELY!!! think that the YJ have the simply better written characters:

    -Clark is seen as the blue boy-scout, while Conner has the simply better origin and because of being a clone of Clark and Lex he also has MUCH more interesting possibilities for the future.
    Conner IS the more interesting character, because he can fullfill ANY role (Villain,Superhero,Anti-Hero) and you can do things with him which you CANT do with Clark..

    I LOVE the idea for example of Conner being a Super-Hero, but a more ruthless Version of Superman who also uses yellow lantern ring for example.

    He also has the better girlfriend than Clark...

    -I dont like Diana and I always thougt that Cassandra is the more likeable character, I also think that she looks better as Wonder Woman than Diana does and if we look at Pre-Flashpoint Origins, she was simply more interesting than Diana.
    We have never seen how powerful Cassandra is at full level and I prefered her lasso to the other 2.

    -I also prefer Bart over Barry

    6. Especially now, as we have Kenan Kong,Jonathan Kent,Wallace West,Emiko....it makes sense to make YJ more powerful, because Kenan,Jonathan,Wallace,Emiko... are already (probably) more powerful than them...


    TT were almost perfect in this sense for me...


    I don't want the kesel kon to be the "permanent" version of Conner either, but I don't want the Geoff version to be the "permanent" version either,but I can appreciate both and have fun reading both.

    Conner is a. Character that should. Constantly changing with the times, the opposite of superman who should stay timeless.

    I personally want the end game to be
    SCION as his hero name
    6'3 230lbs
    All black 1 piece suit WITH red belt, red gloves, red boots, red S on chest, WITH black leather jacket.
    All kryptonian powers
    All TTK/TK powers (kesel, ToT from Geoff, amd lobdells new 52)
    Everything besides YJ shows powers as base, controlled by his mind.
    That would be insanely powerful, and would never want him to be more powerful.
    HQ in Hawaii, but hero everywhere on the planet, in space, in the multiverse,in the future.
    Not as black and white as superman, he sees Grey a lot,but always good

  4. #79
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    Thinking about it, I'm not a big fan of Vixen's animal spirit summoning trick.

    I also don't care for Clayface absorbing Wonder Woman.

  5. #80
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Would it count as a power change when they cut off Dawnstar's wings in the "5 Years Latter..." Legion period and she used her tracking powers mostly after that instead of flight? She went from calling herself Dawnstar to Bounty and from a hero to a bounty hunter.

  6. #81
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    I also don't care for Clayface absorbing Wonder Woman.
    Ooh, I only just remembered Clayface started as a guy in a mask. There's a power upgrade.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Ooh, I only just remembered Clayface started as a guy in a mask. There's a power upgrade.
    Yeah, and Poison Ivy was a lady with perfume that makes you suggestible, IIRC, and now she's a Swamp Thing-lite plant-person, plant-controller, and Killer Croc was a dude with a skin condition, and now he's an actual alligator-person with some aquatic traits and superhuman strength/durability. What's next, Killer Moth turning into a moth-man? Joker becoming a literal joke?

    Ooh, and there's Deathstroke. First just able to 'use 90% of his brain' to be an awesome fighter, but now he's some immortal regenerator who may or may not have an adamantium skeleton...

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    Would it count as a power change when they cut off Dawnstar's wings in the "5 Years Latter..." Legion period and she used her tracking powers mostly after that instead of flight? She went from calling herself Dawnstar to Bounty and from a hero to a bounty hunter.
    Yikes! I never read "5 Years Later" and you just made me profoundly glad thereof. But, yes, I would count that as a significant power change. In fact "power mutilation" comes to mind. But then, it was the 90s, and everybody was trying to Out-Claremont/Miller everybody else.

  9. #84
    Mighty Member MoneySpider's Avatar
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    What do you all think about Swamp Thing's upgrade?

    https://www.cbr.com/justice-league-d...ister-upgrade/
    Black Panther - Champion of Bast
    Vixen - Champion of Anansi

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    What's next, Killer Moth turning into a moth-man?
    That already happened when he was turned into Charaxes in "Underworld Unleashed."


  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by hareluyafan1 View Post
    That already happened when he was turned into Charaxes in "Underworld Unleashed."

    It also happened in that one episode of "The Batman", Team Penguin.

  12. #87
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    I guess it depends on your preferences, but I rather preferred Starman as created, with a Gravity Rod, rather than his Cosmic Rod. Now I suppose there's some hairs to be split here: they both repelled attacks, manipulated gravity, and handed out zap-bolts. The Cosmic Rod, however, seemed to make more of a (JSA) Green Lantern-clone out of him, and The Gravity Rod seemed to have a little less versitility to it. Less hairsplitting is that some of the early stories had the UV rays of The Sun neutralizing the Gravity Rod (never mind that The Sun is just one more star, and they're all likely spraying UV [shut up: it was a 1941 kids' comic!]).

    I kind of think it interesting that Star Man was a dude that could operate only at night.

    Image.jpg

  13. #88
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Yikes! I never read "5 Years Later" and you just made me profoundly glad thereof. But, yes, I would count that as a significant power change. In fact "power mutilation" comes to mind. But then, it was the 90s, and everybody was trying to Out-Claremont/Miller everybody else.
    I love the 5 Years Latter ... run, and even I will admit quite a few members of the team had very bad luck. Compared to poor Sunboy Dawnstar got off easy. I have said forever that if Vertigo would have existed when this run of the book started it would have fit right in with the likes of Swamp Thing and Doom Patrol. It was Vertigo before Vertigo was a thing.

  14. #89
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    Best:
    -----
    Fire -- Her upgrade as a result of Invasion gave her a totally unique look, one I think contributes to her popularity today. She's makes appearances in various big splash scene fights today partially because of it. They can't decide though if she actually turns into fire, or if she's just covered by fire.

    Troia -- In order to differentiate her from Wonder Woman, she got some cool Force Field Powers and other assorted things (like causing people to remember memories) that were gifts from the Titans of Myth.

    Nightshade -- Gained some creepy shadow summoning powers, in addition to her creating portals and shadow form, which I think helped the character visually.

    Oracle -- Does becoming a super hacker count as a power upgrade? Also at some point they made better use of her photographic memory, I'm not sure when she picked it up.

    Tempest -- Aqualad was always very underpowered, and he gained some cool magical upgrades along with heat/cold generation and magic eye blasts.

    Black Lightning -- Went from Lightning Powers, and gained a bunch of cool ways to both control his powers and gained some others (like super strength and reflexes). But his new powers didn't really over shadow that he was a lightning-based super hero.

    Hawkgirl -- Justice League Unlimited made her mace super strong against magic, a small change that made her more useful to the team, which I liked.


    Worst:
    -------
    Donna Troy -- Was brought in to headline "Darkstars" to try and save the title, and became a bit generic because of it. Also the "Kill Evil with a Touch" power, which was kinda unique but I thought mis-used a bit. When she flew in NTT, it was gliding, but at some point it also turned in full blown flight.

    Guy Gardner Warrior -- I loved his book, but hated his power set. I was glad when they forgot about it.

    Mera -- I actually liked her "hard water" powers, but they wanted to use her outside of water, her powers just became Hydrokinesis. Oh well, it was cool in the Aquaman movie.

    Raven -- Maybe her shadow possession powers were a manifestation of her not needing to become a pacifist anymore, but her power set seemed way more unique before. She barely uses her Empathy now which is a very cool, very unique power.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I actually strongly prefer the vulnerability to yellow. I like heroes having some vulnerabilities.
    The Green Lantern's powers is that the ring is still based on WILL POWER.

    Ever have days where it's just hard to get out of bed? Will Power (in the comics world) is too often based as some sort of permanent stat train, whereas in humans (at least) it's constantly going up and down. Even if you accept that Hal has more willpower and better control of it than most people, there's a lot of Lanterns out there who weren't exactly chosen for will power.

    Will Power can fluctuate based on emotional state, pain, how distracted you are etc. In theory, someone like Raven should be able to totally nullify a Green Lantern, telepaths should be able be very effective too.

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