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  1. #16
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    The story ends with the destruction of Olympus and overthrowing of Zeus. The gods die or become human.

    Diana retires from superhero work and marries Artemis. She and Steve still remain friends.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    A lot of those aren't really endings, though, are they? I would hope that as a warrior first and foremost, she gets a warrior's glorious death in the far future, and then is reunited with her loved ones in the Elysium Fields or whatever the Amazons consider Heaven. With visitation rights to other heavens to visit her other friends. But all that stuff happens off panel, and is implied. Sort of like how the movie The 13th Warrior characters viewed death, as merely an opportunity to see their loved ones again if they are brave. They were happy about it in a way, and I would assume Diana might be as well.

    Remember there are probably lots of downsides to true immortality. Even if you get the best possible versions where you never get old or sick.
    What do you mean not really endings?

  3. #18
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The story ends with the destruction of Olympus and overthrowing of Zeus. The gods die or become human.

    Diana retires from superhero work and marries Artemis. She and Steve still remain friends.
    Been planning on writing my own thoughts on an ending story and I also think the end of the Greek God pantheon should play a major role. Odd how I often agree with you on everything except Supes, we’re totally at odds on that particular subject.

    Personally I think polyamory is the way to go for Diana’s love life in her big finale, given how her creator’s life ended. I’d give her Steve and Artemis. I like the idea of her and Artemis hooking up. Could tie that in to the Bana and Themyscaria Amazons reconciling.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Been planning on writing my own thoughts on an ending story and I also think the end of the Greek God pantheon should play a major role. Odd how I often agree with you on everything except Supes, we’re totally at odds on that particular subject.

    Personally I think polyamory is the way to go for Diana’s love life in her big finale, given how her creator’s life ended. I’d give her Steve and Artemis. I like the idea of her and Artemis hooking up. Could tie that in to the Bana and Themyscaria Amazons reconciling.
    Yeah that is weird.

    While I am aware of Marston's life I don't know if polyamory would be the way Diana as a character would go. Then again, that could be because I was thinking of pairing Steve with Lady Blackhawk due to their similarities as pilots and espionage agents.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 07-27-2020 at 01:32 AM.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    What do you mean not really endings?
    Well, they "end" with "and it goes on forever".

  6. #21

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    An "ending" story doesn't have to be "the hero dies or retires."

    It could be a final statement on what the character has always been about or just wrapping up the protagonist's arc. A definition of the story's themes or ideas.
    That could involve the hero dying gloriously. It can also mean the journey continues even if the story is over.
    "Never place your trust in us. We're only human. Inevitably, we will disappoint you."


  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy_McNichts View Post
    An "ending" story doesn't have to be "the hero dies or retires."

    It could be a final statement on what the character has always been about or just wrapping up the protagonist's arc. A definition of the story's themes or ideas.
    That could involve the hero dying gloriously. It can also mean the journey continues even if the story is over.
    Actually, in the case of comics character like WW, who will go on having new stories, yes, it does have to end that way. Or calling it an "ending" is meaningless, as it's no more an ending than any other WW story. With an ongoing character, it will never be the final statement on the character unless you have the character either die or retire. Neither of which is necessarily an unhappy ending, depending on how you do it, nor are either a defeat as such. Look at how Arrow treated it. Ollie is in his version of Heaven, with Felicity.

  8. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    Actually, in the case of comics character like WW, who will go on having new stories, yes, it does have to end that way. Or calling it an "ending" is meaningless, as it's no more an ending than any other WW story. With an ongoing character, it will never be the final statement on the character unless you have the character either die or retire. Neither of which is necessarily an unhappy ending, depending on how you do it, nor are either a defeat as such. Look at how Arrow treated it. Ollie is in his version of Heaven, with Felicity.
    So, by your logic, The Dark Knight Returns isn't a "final" story for Batman since it ends with neither his death nor retirement.

    That's why they're hypothetical finale stories. If they stopped making new comics for this character, this what their final story would be.
    "Never place your trust in us. We're only human. Inevitably, we will disappoint you."


  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy_McNichts View Post
    So, by your logic, The Dark Knight Returns isn't a "final" story for Batman since it ends with neither his death nor retirement.

    That's why they're hypothetical finale stories. If they stopped making new comics for this character, this what their final story would be.
    In fairness, the Dark Knight Returns ended up not being a final Batman story.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    In fairness, the Dark Knight Returns ended up not being a final Batman story.
    Which makes my point for me. Maybe Miller thought it would be a final story, maybe not, but...since he didn't own the character, he had no way of controlling that.

  11. #26
    Mighty Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    In fairness, the Dark Knight Returns ended up not being a final Batman story.
    Same with All-Star since Morrison has it in continuity with DC One Million.
    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    Which makes my point for me. Maybe Miller thought it would be a final story, maybe not, but...since he didn't own the character, he had no way of controlling that.
    I mean that's true but haven't most of the continuations of DKR been Miller-driven?

  12. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    Which makes my point for me. Maybe Miller thought it would be a final story, maybe not, but...since he didn't own the character, he had no way of controlling that.
    But even a story where the character dies and retires isn't a final story either because they'll just be resurrected or dragged out of retirement.

    Which, once again, is why the whole concept is hypothetical.
    "Never place your trust in us. We're only human. Inevitably, we will disappoint you."


  13. #28
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    While Dark Knight Returns and All-Star Superman do indeed not end with their deaths or retirement, I still view them as “finale” stories. The reason for that is they both mark the ending of the traditional Batman and Superman status quo.

    Batman is no longer able to be Bruce Wayne masquerading as a playboy billionaire and managing Wayne Industries, he gives up his company, his mansion, even Alfred. He no longer plans to run around dressed as a Bat or restrict himself to a single partner, instead planning on training the Sons of Batman into a legion of crime fighters. He’s conquered his greatest foe and his greatest rival. His story is basically done, and while Miller wrote sequels, none of them have attained the same esteem as DKR. So you can totally ignore the sequels and just take DKR as is.

    It’s the same with Superman for his story. He’s no longer able to masquerade as oafish Clark Kent, working at the Daily Planet. He’ll no longer get to be Superman, a daily sight for the world, flying around and protecting mankind from day to day threats. For the forseeavle future he’s going to be stuck in the sun, acting as it’s new heart until he can build an artificial one. Everyone knows Clark and Superman are one and the same now, his secret identity is public knowledge. He’s triumphed over his greatest foe and come clean with his greatest love. His story is basically done, even in DC One Million he’s not the main character anymore, and people haven’t seen him for thousands of years at that point. So again you can just take AS as it is, you don’t need to read any sequels.

    That’s the kind of thing I was curious to see for Diana. What does Diana’s version of that look like? When she’s resolved all her internal conflicts (what are those?) and conquered all her greatest external threats (who would qualify?) what’s her “end state”? What does it look like when Diana has progressed beyond the traditional Wonder Woman status quo and become something new?

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy_McNichts View Post
    But even a story where the character dies and retires isn't a final story either because they'll just be resurrected or dragged out of retirement.

    Which, once again, is why the whole concept is hypothetical.
    True enough, but it's about the most you can do to tell a truly final story. Set it far in the future, when every other hero is gone or something, and then have her die saving the multiverse or something. That lessens the temptation to resurrect her for further stories, since pretty much everything to write about was set in the past.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    While Dark Knight Returns and All-Star Superman do indeed not end with their deaths or retirement, I still view them as “finale” stories. The reason for that is they both mark the ending of the traditional Batman and Superman status quo.

    Batman is no longer able to be Bruce Wayne masquerading as a playboy billionaire and managing Wayne Industries, he gives up his company, his mansion, even Alfred. He no longer plans to run around dressed as a Bat or restrict himself to a single partner, instead planning on training the Sons of Batman into a legion of crime fighters. He’s conquered his greatest foe and his greatest rival. His story is basically done, and while Miller wrote sequels, none of them have attained the same esteem as DKR. So you can totally ignore the sequels and just take DKR as is.

    It’s the same with Superman for his story. He’s no longer able to masquerade as oafish Clark Kent, working at the Daily Planet. He’ll no longer get to be Superman, a daily sight for the world, flying around and protecting mankind from day to day threats. For the forseeavle future he’s going to be stuck in the sun, acting as it’s new heart until he can build an artificial one. Everyone knows Clark and Superman are one and the same now, his secret identity is public knowledge. He’s triumphed over his greatest foe and come clean with his greatest love. His story is basically done, even in DC One Million he’s not the main character anymore, and people haven’t seen him for thousands of years at that point. So again you can just take AS as it is, you don’t need to read any sequels.

    That’s the kind of thing I was curious to see for Diana. What does Diana’s version of that look like? When she’s resolved all her internal conflicts (what are those?) and conquered all her greatest external threats (who would qualify?) what’s her “end state”? What does it look like when Diana has progressed beyond the traditional Wonder Woman status quo and become something new?
    Assuming she doesn't die, then I'd assume her final story would be her retirement. Maybe she gardens, maybe she trains new Amazons, but she'd have to be completely out of the hero gig or she's still doing Wonder Woman.

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