Who are the most complex/layered characters in the Marvel Universe?

[your_name_here]

Daredevil
J Jonah Jameson
Magneto
Dr Doom
Loki
Cyclops

[Tony Stark]

Tony Stark, Tony Stark and Tony Stark.

Wait, did I mention Tony Stark? ...Yup! Tony Stark

Quoted for truth!

[Adekis]

First character to come to my mind was Bruce Banner. Even leaving aside his like, fifty different alternate personalities, Bruce's own primary one oscillates situationally between noble, spiteful, heroic, selfish, tragic, and pitiful, and everything in between. And then there's his alters. The Big Guy can be friendly, caring, monstrous, aggressive. Joe Fixit can be a selfish bully or a cunning brute of a hero. And the list goes on. I don't even know how to start describing the Immortal Hulk's main character.

"Get out of my way, insect!"

"I've got you, kid. I've always got you."

The Hulk contains multitudes, embodies contradictions, without ever seeming inconsistent.

I'm more of a DC fan, you can probably tell by my avatar, but the Hulk might be my favorite Marvel character because of all his layers. And also, sometimes I just like strong guys who are really good at punching things, and the Hulks definitely deliver on that.



This isn't a picture of Hulk characters doing something nuanced or introspective, it's just a cool picture.

[Iron Maiden]

Yeah, that outfit screams 90s alright.

I love me some Jae Lee art though.

[K7P5V]

Lots of great picks in this thread. I can disagree with none of them. I'd like to add that Eddie Brock has come a very long way.

Agreed. I remember long ago when Brock was described as a psychopath.
One moment, desperation forces Brock to do the unthinkable. The next moment, he's remorseful for his actions...

Then right back to hatin' on the Spider.

[From The Shadows]

Namor: The Sub-Mariner #33
(December, 1992)

Thats a good pick.

Adam Warlock.

[T'Challa Bruce Von Doom]

In general, Marvel Comics is not the place you go to find realistic believable psychology, and obviously it varies from story to story and writer to writer.

Well, it isn't as if most fiction writers in general have any background in psychology. Written fiction is read for entertainment, not for realistic _________.

I've seen experts express aggravation over how unrealistic something in fiction is that lies within their area of expertise, but the majority of consumers won't have the knowledge to also be aware of it, nor will they care. What matters is whether enough people like it enough to spend their money.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Well, it isn't as if most fiction writers in general have any background in psychology.

That's not even remotely the issue or the topic at hand. It's quite irrelevant to the discussion.

The topic of this thread is "who are the most complex layered characters in the Marvel Universe" that does point towards which characters are psychologically complex, and in general as far as mainstream superhero comics goes, the gold standard for that is Watchmen and most Marvel comics don't measure to that.

[Zelena]

That's not even remotely the issue or the topic at hand. It's quite irrelevant to the discussion.

The topic of this thread is "who are the most complex layered characters in the Marvel Universe" that does point towards which characters are psychologically complex, and in general as far as mainstream superhero comics goes, the gold standard for that is Watchmen and most Marvel comics don't measure to that.

I wouldn’t say that it’s that irrelevant.
How can you compare characters that have defined by several authors, each one having a different idea of how the character should be and characters that have been written, like Watchmen, by one author…
X-men were much more consistent when they were written only by Claremont and they were still complex enough.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I wouldn’t say that it’s that irrelevant.

The poster in question is attacking the concept of fiction representing believable psychology in and of itself. Responding or rebuking that would go completely off-topic:

Well, it isn't as if most fiction writers in general have any background in psychology. Written fiction is read for entertainment, not for realistic _________.

I've seen experts express aggravation over how unrealistic something in fiction is that lies within their area of expertise, but the majority of consumers won't have the knowledge to also be aware of it, nor will they care. What matters is whether enough people like it enough to spend their money.

And it's absolutely irrelevant. The topic is "Who are the most complex layered characters in the Marvel Universe?". To formulate such a topic, one tacitly accepts that fiction can represent believable psychology and that it's possible some characters in the Marvel Universe qualify.

How can you compare characters that have defined by several authors, each one having a different idea of how the character should be and characters that have been written, like Watchmen, by one author…

Now this is a fair take. Again to me Watchmen represents the 10 in a grading scale of least-to-most complex. Least being Millar's Ultimates. To me no MU character qualifies inherently because as you say they are authored by multiple hands of varying degrees of skill and interest in representing psychology. I was just setting a high bar to establish set standards.

If you say complex and layered characters, it would be pretentious to bring in Shakespeare or Tolstoy as opposed to Alan Moore, who worked in the genre knew what it was about and made the fullest attempt to make complex defined characters out of the genre trappings.

For my sake, and I meant only me (others obviously have their own notions and values) I simply laid down standards...i.e. 1 being Mark Millar's Ultimates and 10 being Watchmen to grade the characters.

X-men were much more consistent when they were written only by Claremont and they were still complex enough.

Yeah, that's why you always need to keep in mind certain works featuring these characters rather than others.

In either case, the fact that characters are licensed serial characters does not mean they can't be complexly shaded. Carl Barks worked on Donald Duck comics, and in his best comics he did make Donald into a multi-dimensional character who even has tragic aspects, as much as an anthropomorphic duck can. Certainly more than Howard did, even did Gerber. Don Rosa did that even moreso with Scrooge McDuck. Alan Moore himself made Swamp Thing and Miracleman complex characters, and even Superman became a much more inward and interior focused character in his three Superman stories (For the Man Who Has Everything, The Jungle Line, Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?) than under any other writer before him.

Doctor Doom became a really complex character in Roger Stern's Triumph and Torment. Not that earlier writers didn't tap into that, but Stern took it further. At the end of that comic, you actually do feel for Doom as a fellow human being, warts and all. Stern by the way is a real life friend of Don Rosa as it happens. If you want to make a case of Marvel Writers who had the most complex writing in characterization, then Roger Stern would be on that list alongside Claremont, Miller, J. Michael Straczynski among others (which you guys can add if you so choose)

[Adekis]

You're damn right Donald Duck and Uncle Scrooge are multilayered, complex and psychologically believable characters!

They don't get enough recognition in the superhero saturated US comic book market, but we Stan the Good Duck writers in this house!

[Revolutionary_Jack]

You're damn right Donald Duck and Uncle Scrooge are multilayered, complex and psychologically believable characters!

They don't get enough recognition in the superhero saturated US comic book market, but we Stan the Good Duck writers in this house!

Back in the 50s, Carl Barks Uncle Scrooge comics was the best selling comic in America, moreso than Superman at the height of his fame.

Barks' run on Donald Duck comics was immensely influential...Osamu Tezuka in Japan, Robert Crumb and Art Spiegelman, Walt Simonson on his Mighty Thor run, Steven Spielberg, George Lucas. His writing certainly raised the standards for serial storytelling and the kind of thing you can do with licensed characters.

So you can judge serial narratives with licensed characters on grades of character complexity. Obviously Watchmen is still the summit and ideal.

[manymade1]

Pretty much every long running comic protagonist comes across as equally complex to me. Matt Fraction may have the best take on Hawkeye but that doesn't mean that his take negates the attempts to add nuance to the character beforehand.

[ARkadelphia]

Janet Van Dyne has evolved nicely since her beginnings.

[K7P5V]

Janet Van Dyne has evolved nicely since her beginnings.

Agreed. I believe Roger Stern had a hand in making this come to fruition...