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  1. #106
    of House Bolton Ramsay Snow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursalink View Post
    Either way, there's one thing for sure. Just like Superior Spider-Man (Thank God!), this whole thing of Krakoa and Mutant's current Status Quo won't last. There's no way humanity will leave Mutants to replace them as dominant species (they already did that in House of M), other heroes (the Avengers, the Fantastic Four, Hulk, Dr Strange...) won't allow the X-Men to cross a line that involves innocent lives to die, and even the Inhumans will surely declare war on Mutants when they turn a threat to them (especially considering their previous conflict).

    Bite your tongue.......Superior Spider-Man should have lasted for decades! DECADES!!!!!!!

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramsay Snow View Post
    Bite your tongue.......Superior Spider-Man should have lasted for decades! DECADES!!!!!!!
    The only way that would have happened would be by it's MK II version, that means, Ock in a cloned body of Peter Parker. Other way?, impossible.

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursalink View Post
    The only way that would have happened would be by it's MK II version, that means, Ock in a cloned body of Peter Parker. Other way?, impossible.
    So based on your other posts your implying that mutants should make all the concessions so humans can feel safe and they should just trust humans to do the right thing by them when they never have. Lol ok, I'm done here. Oh and they should make themselves completely defenseless by getting rid of mutants who can't help humans but humans get to keep all their world destroying tech. Sounds like a let's cure black people next to me... *Backs out of thread*
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    So based on your other posts your implying that mutants should make all the concessions so humans can feel safe and they should just trust humans to do the right thing by them when they never have. Lol ok, I'm done here. Oh and they should make themselves completely defenseless by getting rid of mutants who can't help humans but humans get to keep all their world destroying tech. Sounds like a let's cure black people next to me... *Backs out of thread*
    This is a straw man.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    This is a straw man.
    And that's not even mentioning we know for a fact what humans do with people with a healing factor. They don't create life saving drugs, they kidnap them time and time again and violate healers by turning them into weapons of murder for their own devices. This whole premise of cure mutants and humans will do the right thing makes absolutely no sense. It's beyond absurd. It completely ignore any rationality on what humanity is and can be, and does
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  6. #111
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    I only had to read the first few pages of this thread to express that Hickman and company are doing exactly their job if you were able to have an 8-page discussion on the current narrative of the X-Men. This new era of Krakoa isn't supposed to be perfect in-story; otherwise, that would be boring. The whole point of this new launch for the X-Men is that it was supposed to be something new-- a set of new ideals to make our favorite mutants fresh again.

    There have been several seeds planted and plot threads hanging, and I'm sure all of these questions will be answered because Hickman always tells a complete story. The facts that the characters have been a little off, Moira's plot motives are still a mystery, and the villains have already been causing mayhem-- they're all done purposefully.

    And yes, it has been stated many times that Krakoa is here to stay and not just return back to the same old status quo. It's the next era to come after Grant Morrison's New X-Men, which lasted pretty much two decades. And what Krakoa is right now may not mean it's going to be the same withing the next few years. Like any emerging country, they're going to have to work out the kinks.
    I like boys, comics, Disney, and traveling. // follow me @ itsnickmen
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  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    And that's not even mentioning we know for a fact what humans do with people with a healing factor. They don't create life saving drugs, they kidnap them time and time again and violate healers by turning them into weapons of murder for their own devices. This whole premise of cure mutants and humans will do the right thing makes absolutely no sense. It's beyond absurd. It completely ignore any rationality on what humanity is and can be, and does
    "Humans" is a term reserved for an entire species, every people have their own awful people, governments and corrupt people within governments but this suggests Trish Tilby, Hank McCoy's human girlfriend personally signed off on Wolverine's torture simply because she's a human.



    Neither do mutants, that's Krakoa - a sentient island, they weren't doing that in Utopia and it's not like selling drugs like that should be a get out of jail card for everything. You think Ultron couldn't do that if he wanted to? This also bluntly ignores the terror various mutants have caused to humans and other mutants, like trying to genocide the human race and reversing the poles to blackmail the United Nations to handing over a nation on a silver platter and letting millions all over the world die from incidents like planes falling out of the sky, which would affect mutants because they live there. It does make sense for many humans, but not everyone. It's like judging all mutants as being bad because Apocalypse threatening to unleash a plague to destroy humanity if the United Nations dint give in to his ultimatum for humanity to destroy the majority to be on equal terms with mutants so he could instigate a final conflict between the two species while he watches from the sidelines on this throne during Decimation.

    Like I said, straw man. Except for cartels of course, they get a free pass to work with mutant kind.

    This is about uniting the trustworthy parts of mutantkind and humanity and cutting out the corrupt parties of both groups, who are wrecking progress.

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    "Humans" is a term reserved for an entire species, every people have their own awful people, governments and corrupt people within governments but this suggests Trish Tilby, Hank McCoy's human girlfriend personally signed off on Wolverine's torture simply because she's a human.



    Neither do mutants, that's Krakoa - a sentient island, they weren't doing that in Utopia and it's not like selling drugs like that should be a get out of jail card for everything. You think Ultron couldn't do that if he wanted to? This also bluntly ignores the terror various mutants have caused to humans and other mutants, like trying to genocide the human race and reversing the poles to blackmail the United Nations to handing over a nation on a silver platter and letting millions all over the world die from incidents like planes falling out of the sky, which would affect mutants because they live there. It does make sense for many humans, but not everyone. It's like judging all mutants as being bad because Apocalypse threatening to unleash a plague to destroy humanity if the United Nations dint give in to his ultimatum for humanity to destroy the majority to be on equal terms with mutants so he could instigate a final conflict between the two species while he watches from the sidelines on this throne during Decimation.

    Like I said, straw man. Except for cartels of course, they get a free pass to work with mutant kind.

    This is about uniting the trustworthy parts of mutantkind and humanity and cutting out the corrupt parties of both groups, who are wrecking progress.
    And mutants don't need to be "cured" for that to happen. If mutants are expected to show good faith in humanity certainly the same should be expected in return. These aren't everyday people alone that are attacking mutants these are entire governments with apparently no judicial oversight, no constitution and no basic human rights protections despite being a branch of humanity. It's no different then a law needing to be created to give black people rights despite the constitution saying All men are created equal. So while all humans may not be bad, if you can't get politicians and 1 % is doing what they want to whoever they want unchecked it doesn't matter how many good humans there are in the grand just of things. All these lawyer superheroes running around and not a single one addressing basic human rights in the nu but when it came to that superhero registration act that came for them too all of a sudden something had to be done.

    And if we are going to "cure" mutants in the name of peace and safety shouldn't we cure all superheroes and also hate if we can since they can be just as dangerous in a world of super technology and alien technology and super human geniuses filled with malice.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  9. #114
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    I think Hickman has chosen realpolitik as the basis of his ethos not ideology or demagoguery.Although the latter seems to be what the QC voices.That is why in the beginning the school and fighting for the 'oppressed' while hoping to change minds from within was echoing MLK and the civil rights movement but since humanity always looked at mutants as a different species and less as a race it makes absolute sense to go a step further and instead of changing humanity to fight for their own culture ,identity and indipendence in form of nation building.It is a real progression of the struggle.I just think the thin line between indipendence and jingoism is the tightrope the mutants are walking

    I just find the whole premise more engaging. It's sort of like game of Thrones power struggle between humans,mutants and the CoV all have proven to be powerful.Humanity cannot be victimised because they have Orchis,Xeno and now entire states levelling the playing field the only ace up mutants' sleeves are omegas but then it is entirely possible CoV have omegas as well
    Last edited by Rev9; 08-03-2020 at 02:31 AM.

  10. #115
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    And mutants don't need to be "cured" for that to happen. If mutants are expected to show good faith in humanity certainly the same should be expected in return. These aren't everyday people alone that are attacking mutants these are entire governments with apparently no judicial oversight, no constitution and no basic human rights protections despite being a branch of humanity. It's no different then a law needing to be created to give black people rights despite the constitution saying All men are created equal. So while all humans may not be bad, if you can't get politicians and 1 % is doing what they want to whoever they want unchecked it doesn't matter how many good humans there are in the grand just of things. All these lawyer superheroes running around and not a single one addressing basic human rights in the nu but when it came to that superhero registration act that came for them too all of a sudden something had to be done.

    And if we are going to "cure" mutants in the name of peace and safety shouldn't we cure all superheroes and also hate if we can since they can be just as dangerous in a world of super technology and alien technology and super human geniuses filled with malice.
    Instead, mutants come to the table only to have humanity mount an assassination attempt.

    Pointing your finger at mutants makes no sense.

  11. #116
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Instead, mutants come to the table only to have humanity mount an assassination attempt.

    Pointing your finger at mutants makes no sense.
    More than one attempt. We got X-Force and the Economic Forum, then we had Russia, and Verendi and Brasil and ORCHIS targeting children specifically.

    At this point saying that mutants are bad while humans try to kill and experiment on mutants is just plain false and factious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    This is a straw man.
    The straw man thing is your get out of jail card lol. You say that when you don't know how to answer.

    At this point all you've said with thousands of posts has been mutants should act nice and bend over while humanity isn't held accountable. You can call it a straw man or anything else but it's not just one user that has said that to you.

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    More than one attempt. We got X-Force and the Economic Forum, then we had Russia, and Verendi and Brasil and ORCHIS targeting children specifically.

    At this point saying that mutants are bad while humans try to kill and experiment on mutants is just plain false and factious.



    The straw man thing is your get out of jail card lol. You say that when you don't know how to answer.

    At this point all you've said with thousands of posts has been mutants should act nice and bend over while humanity isn't held accountable. You can call it a straw man or anything else but it's not just one user that has said that to you.
    The biggest head scratcher for me is the " well that is all the mutant books present and the other books with baseline super powered heroes shouldn't be boggled down by that cause they have their own stories to tell." But mum is the word when we witness mutant abuses in those books too that have nothing to do with the xbooks. So why can they use mutants to start fights and prop up that line but that line can't be used to show the human side of how they actually help mutants. It's always on the opressed to show the better side of the other. Nope we not doing that anymore in 2020, bring something to the table or don't come at all.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    More than one attempt. We got X-Force and the Economic Forum, then we had Russia, and Verendi and Brasil and ORCHIS targeting children specifically.

    At this point saying that mutants are bad while humans try to kill and experiment on mutants is just plain false and factious.
    Again with generalising a whole species, as if condemning both the bad parties in either side as bad is impossible. Yes, numerous enemies have sprung up and need to be fought, that's normal both for being a nation and being in the X-titles - a serial super-hero comic book. This didn't stop mutant kind having bad apples in it.

    It is false, since I didn't say that. Not a word on Apocalypse destroying humanity since acknowledging that disrupts the narrative.

    The straw man thing is your get out of jail card lol. You say that when you don't know how to answer.

    At this point all you've said with thousands of posts has been mutants should act nice and bend over while humanity isn't held accountable. You can call it a straw man or anything else but it's not just one user that has said that to you.
    A straw man won't stop being a straw man by pretending it's not.

    No, I haven't. Apocalypse conditions for "surrender" is the setting of Age of Apocalypse, how is that good for anyone? Sure, the bad people in humanity should be held accountable, and so should the mutants who do the same. Krakoa didn't hold numerous dangerous mutants "accountable" they did their own Operation: paper clip and gave them political power. There is no justice even for their own kind in the court systems, or justice for past crimes against them. Don't use peer pressure on me.

    The mutants have been tricked into this since far too much is going on which is raising red flags. It should be Game of Thrones, but it's the West Wing.

  14. #119
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Again with generalising a whole species, as if condemning both the bad parties in either side as bad is impossible. Yes, numerous enemies have sprung up and need to be fought, that's normal both for being a nation and being in the X-titles - a serial super-hero comic book. This didn't stop mutant kind having bad apples in it.

    It is false, since I didn't say that. Not a word on Apocalypse destroying humanity since acknowledging that disrupts the narrative.

    ...
    Since the humans who mounted the assassination attempt did not target Magneto/Apocalypse/Gorgon while leaving Scott and Charles alone?

    No one who is actually going on what is there on the pages should have to try to entertain the idea that there is only some bad humanity.

    There is no reason that even remotely competent government would be taking the most cautious approach under those circumstances.

    You seem to consistently want folks to look at the history of some of the characters on Krakoa in order to judge who they are now.

    Apply your very own metrics to judging the humanity that Krakoa is dealing with. That is what everyone actually discussing what is in the books has been doing.

  15. #120
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    I have to admit though since it is implied that Xavier knew of the attempt on his life, and did not take precautions,this suggests baiting and recklessness due to his immortality technology.From now on death is not as weighty a Rubicon to be a red line anymore.In fact humans are more than justified to fear for their lives that are incredibly inconsequential to any mutant -Krakoan laws or no. Human survival is hanging on a whim of a pretty volatile and supremacist leadership on Krakoa.

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