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  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by loke13 View Post
    I mean that's just straight up false when it comes to the MU they're literally immortal beings that exist.
    Only if you are an important character and your role isn't better to be dead, like Uncle Ben.

    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    See Xavier's speech at the beginning of HoX for the rest. Why is expected of mutants to share everything and be welcoming to humans but the opposite isn't?
    To be better than the jerks that hate them, maybe? Of course I'm not telling EVERYONE should be resurrected, but like I said, how about the family of the X-Cutioner, who died because one of Magneto's attacks? What is the Mutants excuse for not fitting what they did back then?

  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    But no creature should be killed by a Sentinel just because of their genetic makeup or because they belong to a minority.
    Tell that to Sebastian Shaw. And it's not like other mutants or others haven't killed mutants before and get to live freely. Many on the council have vast histories in trying to kill mutants, including very young ones. Nobody should be killed or oppressed because they are a minority, but that hasn't stopped them being murdered or abused by their own kind. The X-men were formed to stop terrorists like Magneto not Sentinels, that came later.

    That is such a poor point. Medicines and drugs aren't natural either, why don't we all die when we get the flu? We're such monsters for going against nature!

    Resurrection is done by merging the powers of 5 mutants, and the process is so well balanced that it's restorative for the Five themselves. It's the peak of mutantdom.

    See Xavier's speech at the beginning of HoX for the rest. Why is expected of mutants to share everything and be welcoming to humans but the opposite isn't?
    Should Wakanda have kept its cure for cancer secret? That was a very controversial choice by Hudlin when he wrote it.

    So you're saying the resurrection process has nothing to do with Apocalypse or the Crucible? I'm relieved someone finally agrees with me on that.

    If krakoa chooses to want live in harmony with humanity they will need to be open about sharing things than they are now, that they're not is very telling about their political agenda.

    And you're ignoring a a big reason for how that technology is shared, it's based on what race a person is not about who they are as people.

    Before someone says that we're putting all humanity in the same category as racists, just check your facts and numbers. Most human governments have been awful to mutants and are still bad towards them, and . There's no reason for mutants to believe that whatever they share with humans (including Resurrections) won't be used against them. You just need to look at what's been done to the mutant drugs and the Pollen situation currently. Mutants are now choosing safety of their species and their dears first.
    This loses its edge when it's contradicted right after in the paragraph. And we don't have all the numbers: how many people did Magneto kill in "Magneto War" when he reversed the poles? All the numbers we have are made by krakoa, I'd be intrigued to see the world's reaction to those data sheets. Propaganda works superbly when it's not allowed to be countered by outside agencies and people don't question things. Since Krakoa is a closed society the latter benefits the Quiet Council, as they are the status quo.

    So why give humanity the drugs? Wouldn't that be weaponised against them?

  3. #198
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    You keep making arguments which essentially are "the minority should act nice instead of claiming their place in the world, because this way they can live in harmony and not be killed by humanity".

    Yeah you can go ahead and call it a strawman.

    What are humans doing to defend mutants? Nothing. While mutants have given them drugs and they have made illegal killing humans. Humans in the meantime are kidnapping children and sending terrorists to Krakoa and doing all kinds of shady stuff.

    Lol at the conspiracy theory that Krakoa is pumping the numbers of mutant deaths lol. Maybe you should read more X-Men comics to see those deaths and get what I was referring to (semiquote).

    The drugs have already been used by humans to do evil.

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursalink View Post
    EVERY SINGLE LIVING CREATURE has to die at some point.

    And there's ABSOLUTELY nothing natural in resurrections. (Yes, I know in the comics happens everytime, but in a real world, it wouldn't). Besides, how about all the humans that mutants have killed in the past? If they can resurrect people and they have the law of "Kill no man", why can't they bring back all the humans they killed in the past? Like the X-Cutioner's family (the one from X-Men Gold), who were killed during one of Magneto's attacks? Tell him, "how is it fair for mutants to resurrect while innocent humans can't?".

    In Marvel Universe, superhumans resurrect almost continuosly, but regular people don't. So how do you think they will allow Mutants to cheat death like that after they ruined so many innocent lives? And I'm basically talking about regular humans trapped in the crossfire between mutants.
    Already been addressed in jane foster book. Death was dying because of it and she took mutants off her list and was healed up by the end of the issue. So if death has already moved on and the clock is still ticking then it's cool. I suspect when time catches up mutants won't even need to resurrect anymore because death has taken them off the list. Now wake up kitty.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    You keep making arguments which essentially are "the minority should act nice instead of claiming their place in the world, because this way they can live in harmony and not be killed by humanity".

    Yeah you can go ahead and call it a strawman.
    It's definitely a straw man.

    This isn't about minorities in that context any longer - that's the backdrop in the wider world which Krakoa exists in. We're talking about Krakoa itself, a mutant nation for mutants by mutants. Mutants aren't the minority there., they're the majority. The Quiet Council are The Man in that country. They run everything there. The X-mansion is dead, the X-men aren't teachers at the Xavier Institute and there aren't Sentinel factories in Krakoa that the Quiet Council is unleashing on the populace. They're a First World nation with mega corporations at their beck and call.

    "Claiming a place in the world" is a very nice sounding phrase which could mean anything, which is easy too twist to justify bad acts - like working with cartels. They're not living in harmony with humanity, they're isolated from it. And it's not just humanity, it's not like Krakao has a booming Atlantean population.

    What are humans doing to defend mutants? Nothing. While mutants have given them drugs and they have made illegal killing humans. Humans in the meantime are kidnapping children and sending terrorists to Krakoa and doing all kinds of shady stuff.
    It's not like the X-men have ever encountered any humans who have supported or help protect mutants before in the comics.



    Don't downplay what activities Krakao's getting up to as if it wasn't doing the same things human governments do. The laws on krakoa are flimsy, and vague. Don't kill humans but give them injuries which will surely kill them anyway.

    Lol at the conspiracy theory that Krakoa is pumping the numbers of mutant deaths lol. Maybe you should read more X-Men comics to see those deaths and get what I was referring to (semiquote).
    Krakoa would definitely make propaganda for itself. Xavier supported Emma Frost using her telepathy to change peoples minds to get voters in the United Nations. If I'm wrong tell me who outside Krakao has read the fact sheets? Who's writing them? What have the other nations said in response to those findings? Who's making the data sheets and who's seeing them? I asked you a very simple question: how many people did Magneto kill in "Magneto War," if you know the answer there would be no need for moving the goal posts. That's just one high profile incident about a mutant super-villain in Krakao, Krakao has the entire rogues gallery there.

    The drugs have already been used by humans to do evil.
    Why hasn't Krakoa stopped producing them to stop this?

  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    It's definitely a straw man.

    This isn't about minorities in that context any longer - that's the backdrop in the wider world which Krakoa exists in. We're talking about Krakoa itself, a mutant nation for mutants by mutants. Mutants aren't the minority there., they're the majority. The Quiet Council are The Man in that country. They run everything there. The X-mansion is dead, the X-men aren't teachers at the Xavier Institute and there aren't Sentinel factories in Krakoa that the Quiet Council is unleashing on the populace. They're a First World nation with mega corporations at their beck and call.

    "Claiming a place in the world" is a very nice sounding phrase which could mean anything, which is easy too twist to justify bad acts - like working with cartels. They're not living in harmony with humanity, they're isolated from it. And it's not just humanity, it's not like Krakao has a booming Atlantean population.



    It's not like the X-men have ever encountered any humans who have supported or help protect mutants before in the comics.





    Don't downplay what activities Krakao's getting up to as if it wasn't doing the same things human governments do. The laws on krakoa are flimsy, and vague. Don't kill humans but give them injuries which will surely kill them anyway.



    Krakoa would definitely make propaganda for itself. Xavier supported Emma Frost using her telepathy to change peoples minds to get voters in the United Nations. If I'm wrong tell me who outside Krakao has read the fact sheets? Who's writing them? What have the other nations said in response to those findings? Who's making the data sheets and who's seeing them? I asked you a very simple question: how many people did Magneto kill in "Magneto War," if you know the answer there would be no need for moving the goal posts. That's just one high profile incident about a mutant super-villain in Krakao, Krakao has the entire rogues gallery there.



    Why hasn't Krakoa stopped producing them to stop this?
    The funniest part of it all is humans are doing the exact same thing or worse in the marvel universe. lol. It's actually quite comical at this point. This has moved from a straw theory to build a wall because i can't see the other side. lol. "but but but the mutants, they are suppose to be better than who they learned from." i needed this giggle this morning.
    magneto knows whats up, before he was a mutant he was in a concentration camp of human design and after he was a mutant he was persecuted and watched his people locked up once again by human design.
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  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Krakoa would definitely make propaganda for itself. Xavier supported Emma Frost using her telepathy to change peoples minds to get voters in the United Nations. If I'm wrong tell me who outside Krakao has read the fact sheets? Who's writing them? What have the other nations said in response to those findings? Who's making the data sheets and who's seeing them? I asked you a very simple question: how many people did Magneto kill in "Magneto War," if you know the answer there would be no need for moving the goal posts. That's just one high profile incident about a mutant super-villain in Krakao, Krakao has the entire rogues gallery there.



    Why hasn't Krakoa stopped producing them to stop this?
    What I don't get, is why you keep acting like all of this is so bad? Are you really that boring a person?

    Yes, Emma Frost used her powers to manipulate the UN. How is that bad?? Yes, Magneto killed hundreds of flatscans in Magento War, how is that bad??

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by misty101 View Post
    What I don't get, is why you keep acting like all of this is so bad? Are you really that boring a person?
    Corruption and propaganda are bad things in reality. It's not about being boring, it's about having ethics. Were the X-men "boring" to you before Krakoa?

    Yes, Emma Frost used her powers to manipulate the UN. How is that bad?? Yes, Magneto killed hundreds of flatscans in Magento War, how is that bad??
    Violating peoples mind through mind control and global scale mass murder, which would be millions not hundreds conservatively, would definitely be bad in my opinion. I'm not sure why this was even a question, that's just common sense.

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Corruption and propaganda are bad things in reality.
    Sweetie, this isn't reality. It's really bizarre that you think it is.
    It's X-Men.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    lity. It's not about being boring, it's about having ethics. Were the X-men "boring" to you before Krakoa?
    and YES, God yes! the last 8 years have been the worst the books have ever been. It's bad when you end up rooting for Ahab to spear everyone like he did Mimic
    Last edited by misty101; 08-10-2020 at 06:25 AM.

  10. #205
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misty101 View Post
    Yes, Emma Frost used her powers to manipulate the UN. How is that bad?? Yes, Magneto killed hundreds of flatscans in Magento War, how is that bad??
    Strangely, I never cheered people’s deaths even fictional ones… Maybe, because I tend to read top-quality comics where the authors succeed to make feel that these fictional characters are like real ones. By the time I was reading, of course…

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Corruption and propaganda are bad things in reality. It's not about being boring, it's about having ethics. Were the X-men "boring" to you before Krakoa?



    Violating peoples mind through mind control and global scale mass murder, which would be millions not hundreds conservatively, would definitely be bad in my opinion. I'm not sure why this was even a question, that's just common sense.
    i would argue violating peoples basic human rights is far worse which humans do constantly. They test on each other, they test on animals, they test on mutants. They put humans in concentration camps, they put mutants in concentration camps. They kill humans, animals and mutants just because they can or they feign feeeeear and that's suppose to make it all okay. Not to mention if humans care so much about a cure why weren't they trying to cure the inhumans or did anything about them setting up in new york. Where is the cure for captain america and all the other human heroes running around including he fantastic four if it's about the fear of powers and people getting hurt. It's because it's about the fear of being replaced and thats it. It is canon the most dangerous thing in the marvel universe are humans. We learned this from every entity in the marvel universe including aliens. This too is canon fact.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by misty101 View Post
    Sweetie, this isn't reality. It's really bizarre that you think it is.
    It's X-Men.
    The patronising and gaslighting is getting old. I know it's not reality, that's obvious. What is telling is the reactions to laws being broken and personal agency being stolen and there's no warning signs that any of this is wrong ethically - even in hypothetical stories. That's worrying.

    So you did think X-men was boring before, that explains things.
    Last edited by Steel Inquisitor; 08-10-2020 at 07:29 PM.

  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    The patronising and gaslighting is getting old. I know it's not reality, that's obvious. What is telling is the reactions to laws being broken and personal agency being stolen and there's no warning signs that any of this is wrong ethically - even in hypothetical stories. That's worrying.

    So you did think X-men was boring before, that explains things.

    I'm done with the trolling, you're going on the ignore list.
    We're pretty much tired and exhausted from all your trolling too. Your gaslighting got old months ago.

    Last edited by misty101; 08-10-2020 at 07:48 AM.

  14. #209
    Incredible Member Lapsus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misty101 View Post
    We're pretty much tired and exhausted from all your trolling too. Your gaslighting got old months ago.

    Lets be honest, that panel looks like a terrible excuse, imagine if wanda saids the same.

    Im not interested in looking back at the crimes of Emma or Magneto, Marvel Universe is not a true serial series, different authors, different ideas. There is a common theme, a lack of accountability on the part of Superheroes in general.

    What matters the most is the current arc, is the only way that i find to read this, otherwise we start throwing arguments of past stories that makes no sense in the current context. In other words, Emma is good, Magneto leans to the good side and Apocalypse, Sinister, Mystique and Selene are still villains until they have decades of development.

    Now, when it comes to the villains in Krakoa, technically speaking, the x-men are not using double-standard.

    Yes, the X-Men offered to every single mutant villain amnesty of their past crimes, from now on is a new begining, how this is going to last is another debate, at the same time Charles, while passive-agressive, offered good will towards the rest of humanity.

    Then, the X-Men started to fight hostile groups of anti-mutants humans, for me, they are not breaking their word, you cant offer these groups amnesty if they want you dead.

    The X-Men would become hypocrites if they decide to hunt down a retired villain, they would be killing him just for being human. Until that point, in my eyes this is not double standard.

  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    The patronising and gaslighting is getting old. I know it's not reality, that's obvious. What is telling is the reactions to laws being broken and personal agency being stolen and there's no warning signs that any of this is wrong ethically - even in hypothetical stories. That's worrying.

    So you did think X-men was boring before, that explains things.

    I'm done with the trolling, you're going on the ignore list.
    On the off chance that folks aren't aware of this one...

    https://community.cbr.com/showthread...ARDS-amp-RULES

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