[Theory] - Have the Mutants been actually tricked?

[Ferro]

Agreed. People are mad that Claremont hates the current books? Can you blame him? lol. If they do this to Moira..

I dont care about claremont, his modern work has invalidated him from ever speaking of current xmen affairs and he has admited he doesnt read anything that isnt his work.

bringing him up as a reason why this era sucks is a terrible argument, he hates everything that isnt his.

[Riv86672]

Hating/not hating Claremont wasn’t the topic ppl have replied to regarding him.
His relevance was.
And, as he definitively defined 90% of the characters currently being used in Hickman’s run, and in some cases created/co-created them, he’s relevant.

Personally I think he’s a cranky old codger.

[Jack The Tripper]

I personally don't think the mutants have been tricked/mind boggled/ anything like that - at least not in the way that's being talked about. I don;t think it's some secret plot from a typical villain per se. I think the answer is quite plain. Magneto and Xavier are the people behind this, and Moira up to a point. Just as we saw with the Destiny stuff, they're the ones puppeteering this. Whether it works out or not is the question. I don't think the trinity are doing this for malevolent reasons, I think they believe in what they're doing and the essence of Krakoa has been made clear to all mutants - We are superior, now we are safe from extinction - just the inner workings may not have been fully disclosed. Almost like Soylent Green. But as far as out of character moments go, I think that's been overblown. Outside of Hickman's writing, most of the creators have perfected most of the characters' voices imo. Hickman's definitely more of a world builder, but his stuff is so ambitious and interesting that I can forgive a lot of his flaws. And the character beats he gets right are often some of the best character beats I've seen in recent years (The attack on Mother Mold/Mystique and Destiny/X-Men #4 are prime examples).

I think we've also got to remember that there is big time gap before HoX/PoX/DoX that, to me, covers any convincing certain characters may have needed to go along with the new status quo!

[Big Joe]

I personally don't think the mutants have been tricked/mind boggled/ anything like that - at least not in the way that's being talked about. I don;t think it's some secret plot from a typical villain per se. I think the answer is quite plain. Magneto and Xavier are the people behind this, and Moira up to a point. Just as we saw with the Destiny stuff, they're the ones puppeteering this. Whether it works out or not is the question. I don't think the trinity are doing this for malevolent reasons, I think they believe in what they're doing and the essence of Krakoa has been made clear to all mutants - We are superior, now we are safe from extinction - just the inner workings may not have been fully disclosed. Almost like Soylent Green. But as far as out of character moments go, I think that's been overblown. Outside of Hickman's writing, most of the creators have perfected most of the characters' voices imo. Hickman's definitely more of a world builder, but his stuff is so ambitious and interesting that I can forgive a lot of his flaws. And the character beats he gets right are often some of the best character beats I've seen in recent years (The attack on Mother Mold/Mystique and Destiny/X-Men #4 are prime examples).

I think we've also got to remember that there is big time gap before HoX/PoX/DoX that, to me, covers any convincing certain characters may have needed to go along with the new status quo!

It's a point, no doubt. Some, or all, have possibly been convinced to accept the new status quo, maybe with a slight, or not so slight, telepathic push. What's going to happen when Moira is revealed, and she is bound to be. How will Rahne and Banshee react? Her son, how will he take it? The others that she's worked closely with over the years, what will they think?

I think this is what currently intrigues me most because that's definitely going to throw a spanner in the works. I actually do think there has to be some kind of mind control involved to keep all these diverse mutants around without brawls erupting constantly considering their pasts. In the past it's been difficult enough integrating one former enemy into the ranks, now there are dozens.

When it blows it could blow sky high.

[Jack The Tripper]

It's a point, no doubt. Some, or all, have possibly been convinced to accept the new status quo, maybe with a slight, or not so slight, telepathic push. What's going to happen when Moira is revealed, and she is bound to be. How will Rahne and Banshee react? Her son, how will he take it? The others that she's worked closely with over the years, what will they think?

I think this is what currently intrigues me most because that's definitely going to throw a spanner in the works. I actually do think there has to be some kind of mind control involved to keep all these diverse mutants around without brawls erupting constantly considering their pasts. In the past it's been difficult enough integrating one former enemy into the ranks, now there are dozens.

When it blows it could blow sky high.

I agree, I'm definitely looking forward to its conclusion. And man, it better be drawn by Pepe Larraz!

[EMagnum]

Good chance. They've seeded quite a few hints he's acting some what not like himself. It wouldn't surprise if after that surprised look on his face from seeing Moira's memories Xavier said no. Then she spent the remainder of her years pulling double duty working with the X-Men while setting up a way to control Charles. He did just die and get resurrected not too long ago.......some how...in a unexplained or vaguely explained way.

Anyway, so many ways this could go down.

[marhawkman]

It's a point, no doubt. Some, or all, have possibly been convinced to accept the new status quo, maybe with a slight, or not so slight, telepathic push. What's going to happen when Moira is revealed, and she is bound to be. How will Rahne and Banshee react? Her son, how will he take it? The others that she's worked closely with over the years, what will they think?

I think this is what currently intrigues me most because that's definitely going to throw a spanner in the works. I actually do think there has to be some kind of mind control involved to keep all these diverse mutants around without brawls erupting constantly considering their pasts. In the past it's been difficult enough integrating one former enemy into the ranks, now there are dozens.

When it blows it could blow sky high.

Slight telepathic coercion seems plausible. Making people just feel happier without actually forcing them works.

I mean just look at what happened when Doug walked into the place the MLF lived. They made a show of threatening him but only a show.

[Veitha]

It's a point, no doubt. Some, or all, have possibly been convinced to accept the new status quo, maybe with a slight, or not so slight, telepathic push. What's going to happen when Moira is revealed, and she is bound to be. How will Rahne and Banshee react? Her son, how will he take it? The others that she's worked closely with over the years, what will they think?

I think this is what currently intrigues me most because that's definitely going to throw a spanner in the works. I actually do think there has to be some kind of mind control involved to keep all these diverse mutants around without brawls erupting constantly considering their pasts. In the past it's been difficult enough integrating one former enemy into the ranks, now there are dozens.

When it blows it could blow sky high.

Xavier doing telepathic pushes with Jean, Emma, the Cuckoos, Quire, Rachel, Betsy and Exodus around is not credible. And Hickman wouldn't use such a cheap concept.

They're all in board because the mutants are finally winning! And they live in a literal paradise! The only trick is that they don't know about Moira and they don't know about the fact that they're eventually going to lose. Thus the no precogs rule.

[Diamond Claws]

I have to say, I really hate what the X-Men (and Mutants in general) have become currently. They have turned themselves with such arrogance and superiority that they think they can do whatever they please. They have to be stopped!! But when I took a look back at how this whole mess started, you know, with Moria's past lives, and idea crossed my mind. What if Moria, and the X-Men in consequence, have been tricked and manipulated by the Homo Novissima?

At the end of Moira's sixth life, the Librarian explained quite logically why Mutants always lose, because natural evolution is no match for genetic engineer. Moira then would try to live another live and avoid Mutants' extinction. She failed 3 times, and now she's in the fourth, which is possibly her last life. However, something bugs me. The Librarian apparently knew the whole thing about Moira's powers, so he should have known that, by telling Moira this, she would just kill herself to go back in time again. And yet, the Librarian said that. How about if the Librarian actually tricked Moira?

The Librarian could actually have sent a backup of himself to be assimilated by the Phalanx, so the Phalanx would be aware of Moira's powers; then allow himself to be killed in order to trick her. Mutant's new prepotent's attitude of superiority and willing to do whatever they want are clearly asking for trouble. Sooner than we think, there's going to be a war against Krakoa, which will only initiate the whole "Human-Machie-Mutant War" in motion, where eventually, Mutants lose. How about if the Phalanx are tricked Mutants to act like this, so the war will start sooner and Mutants will still lose, but the assimilate humanity first?

Do you think it's possible?

honestly, I think you haven't read the X-Men comics in twenty years, since the end of the Morrison Era, the X-MEN are not what they were before, things have changed, it's been over 10 years since Utopia and the X- MEN have been radical since that time and until today we haven't seen everything go back to the way it was before, the X-MEN only get more radical over time.

thinking that mutants are being controlled doesn’t make sense is just being a negationist, Hickman said that everything has changed after HOX POX I believe that obviously things will change in Krakoa, whether in the leadership of the island or in the residents but there’s no way to erase this era of history it’s already marked, the only way to do that would be to make Moira come back from death in a new life again, but MARVEL will never do that because Moira’s Life 10 contains all of the publisher’s stories since the 1960s, not only of the mutants, but from the Avengers and the other human heroes too, if Moira revives all of this it will be erased, it would be a New 52 style reboot at MARVEL and I don’t know if she is proposing to do that

[Steel Inquisitor]

Xavier doing telepathic pushes with Jean, Emma, the Cuckoos, Quire, Rachel, Betsy and Exodus around is not credible. And Hickman wouldn't use such a cheap concept.

Xavier's love for the X-men he so cherished is no longer absolute, the old Xavier wouldn't be shrugging off Apocalypse abusing his former students like they mean nothing to him, and the days of him telepathically doing unethical things in secret are gone, he's ok laughing about doing it when it suits his agenda with Emma Frost.

He's also ok lying and manipulating them all, along with Eric, for Moira X.

Hickman loves subverting his super-heroes into doing bad things, Xavier and Beast were both in the Illuminati.

They're all in board because the mutants are finally winning! And they live in a literal paradise! The only trick is that they don't know about Moira and they don't know about the fact that they're eventually going to lose. Thus the no precogs rule.

Did you read this year's X-men Free Comic Day comic? Krakoa as we know it is on a ticking clock. This status quo was never going to last, it's comic books. Even when they were in the mansion they had it destroyed every so often and X-men left and fought each other. It's ok to question what Hickman shows you in the comics, don't take everything at face value.

[Rev9]

^ headcanon about Selene. Xavier put psychic blocks on Sinister to prevent him from betraying them. It's all what ifs at this point.

Sinister is crucial in overturn all the bad that has happened to mutants, from Genosha to M'Day, and even what he himself has done.

He put blocks on one of the clones not the Sinister on Krakoa,Sinister even joked about it in either a secret or on panel.They think they have Sinister on a leash yet he's already a step ahead!

[Veitha]

Xavier's love for the X-men he so cherished is no longer absolute, the old Xavier wouldn't be shrugging off Apocalypse abusing his former students like they mean nothing to him, and the days of him telepathically doing unethical things in secret are gone, he's ok laughing about doing it when it suits his agenda with Emma Frost.

He's also ok lying and manipulating them all, along with Eric, for Moira X.

Hickman loves subverting his super-heroes into doing bad things, Xavier and Beast were both in the Illuminati.



Did you read this year's X-men Free Comic Day comic? Krakoa as we know it is on a ticking clock. This status quo was never going to last, it's comic books. Even when they were in the mansion they had it destroyed every so often and X-men left and fought each other. It's ok to question what Hickman shows you in the comics, don't take everything at face value.

I meant that there's no way Jean, Emma, Exodus, the Cuckoos, Rachel and Betsy together wouldn't find out if there was psychic tampering going on. And it would be such a weak and boring plot point. The X-Men are on board because they're finally happy.

Xavier has always been shady. He tampered with his students heads in the past.

Yeah I did read the FCBD issue and duh it's the introduction to the next event, of course it's going to have those tones. Krakoa is not going to go away this soon or after XoS.

[Rev9]

I meant that there's no way Jean, Emma, Exodus, the Cuckoos, Rachel and Betsy together wouldn't find out if there was psychic tampering going on. And it would be such a weak and boring plot point. The X-Men are on board because they're finally happy.

Xavier has always been shady. He tampered with his students heads in the past.

Yeah I did read the FCBD issue and duh it's the introduction to the next event, of course it's going to have those tones. Krakoa is not going to go away this soon or after XoS.

You are right in the regard 1.It's been done to death by Xavier and is unrealistic with Jean ,Emma and especially Exodus able to sniff this kind of subterfuge almost immediately

2.It undercuts the voluntary embracing of Krakoa by those welcomed

However Xavier is still not off the hook,my fear is if push comes to shove he will not use his mind but he can use Cerebro to excise/expunge 'impure/divergent' memories from anyone he sees as problematic upon resurrection.That will be much harder to notice by peers since he seems to have monopoly of the memory implantation at this point

[Steel Inquisitor]

I meant that there's no way Jean, Emma, Exodus, the Cuckoos, Rachel and Betsy together wouldn't find out if there was psychic tampering going on. And it would be such a weak and boring plot point.

We don't have all the facts yet. Onslaught was a much simpler event and it didn't lay all its cards on the table that quickly. His origin, and weaknesses took months for the heroes to figure out. This isn't about your opinion on how good the plot point is, it's about if it's a thing which is going to happen and what shape it'll be in. There's so many variables here, than simply Xavier brainwashing people.

The X-Men are on board because they're finally happy.

Plot twists like this are classics in fiction and Hickman's a writer who won't reveal everything up front. This is more like a science fiction novel series than a traditional X-men comic book.

Xavier has always been shady. He tampered with his students heads in the past.

In the past he was ok letting Apocalypse experiment on his students when? This is more like low key Onslaught than covering something up. And he didn't laugh about it with someone else doing it.

Yeah I did read the FCBD issue and duh it's the introduction to the next event, of course it's going to have those tones. Krakoa is not going to go away this soon or after XoS.

How are you sure it's just about the next event? I doubt the Sword thing is going to end in civil war, that's far to quick. No, it's not, and it needn't have to for things to hit the fan. The Krakoa ten years from now may not the same country it is today.

[Will Evans]

Somehow the Destiny/Mystique and no precog thing is going to come back and bite Moira in the butt. With the Krakoa nation paying the price.