Jeph Loeb controversy over racism on Daredevil storyline

[Guy_McNichts]

There's a scene in the first Blade where he storms a club that seems to be owned by Japanese vampires. Just one scene and I think Blade beats up a handful of henchmen, but I guess it left an impression on Jeph Loeb.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Damn. I was a big fan of Gao but felt she went out on a whimper. I didn't care for Nobu but maybe these dropped storylines would've changed that. A multiracial Iron Fist could've been interesting but Danny's pretty weak as a character to me so its more of a step one type decision than an automatic game-changer.

Having Danny's mom be from Kun Lun would have been a good way to try that out as well as giving his mom more to do.

Granted i rather they just give an asian character the leg up and put Danny on the shelf. Trust me Colleen was the better lead character both seasons.

The Blade story does feel like an exaggeration but its a possibility Shinkoda was remembering what someone told him anecdotally.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

I don't know about any of this.

First, in the Entertainment Weekly article linked at the OP, we don't really get a sense that Jeph Loeb actually said "nobody gives a shit about Asian people." To me, that was the actor's paraphrasing because at first he says Loeb said, "nobody cares about Chinese people and Asian people." as Loeb's rationale for cutting the backstory of his character.

In either case, Jeph Loeb is NOT saying that HE does not care about Asians. If the story is true at all, it could be that Loeb is supposing that the general public doesn't care. The quote is "nobody cares," not "I don't care." Loeb may be wrong about the general public or is underestimating them, but it's not crazy to think that in a Daredevil show, the general public would not be interested in a protracted storyline about side characters. I haven't watched the DD series yet, but even from the comics, the characters of Nobu and Madame Gao, the Asian characters in question, are not characters I remember from what I've read. I don't know if I'd be interested in tons of screen time being devoted to exploring their pasts -- whether they were Asian or not.

Quite frankly, Hollywood does this thing all the time because they make assumptions about what the general public wants to see. Nobody seemed to "give a shit" that Batwoman's Jewish background was downplayed and pretty much outright removed from her character, and the new Batwoman doesn't appear to be Jewish at all. Does that make Greg Berlanti a "terrible person," or is he just making assumptions on what the general public is interested in?

As far as Iron Fist is concerned, Iron Fist is a white guy. If we've gotten to the point in society where casting a white guy with a white guy is controversial, then I give up. Given today's triggered social media climate, if Marvel DID make Iron Fist Asian, I'm sure there would have been a whole contingent of people who were insulted that Marvel's first Asian-led series featured a character who was a marital arts expert because that would be stereotypical.

[Cyke]

I can believe that either Loeb or Shinkoda or whoever-as-whoever else was confusing Blade with Kill Bill, since Kill Bill had similar complaints from the Asian American community about the first film. That it's a duology rather than a trilogy, that it's a Tarantino movie and not a Marvel movie, are beside the greater overall point that killing Asians en masse on screen shows the (old) Hollywood thinking that audiences don't care about Asian characters (to allegedly Loeb's point), that it's super problematic (to Shinkoda's point), and/or both points actually.

[Surf]

Didn't both characters appear in The Defenders? I know Gao did, she was one of the coldest characters in the Netflix Marvel shows. I've never found much of Loeb's work that special anyway so... The fact he became a show runner on the back of something on the resume as basic and corny and still lauded as Daredevil Yellow, leans me more toward the mediocrity that has been so prevalent within the industry. Coupled with that picture of him with the bandanna doing whatever it is he things is fly just kind of cements it.

[Frontier]

I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked that the guy who promoted Iron Fist like this could be racist against Asians:



(Also a reminder that Jessica Henwick told him to take that headband off at the panel.)

...Wow, the tone deafness of this boggles the mind.

[Mister Mets]

I don't want to say that Shinkoda might be lying, but that quote about Blade makes the whole story seem suspect.

It may also be a case where something was misunderstood, if there was an argument about not focusing on the backstories of two villains, as opposed to not telling stories about Asians.

[Sutekh]

No idea what to think about Loeb (other than the headband thing is not helping with the 'not a racist' argument), but Nabu definitely felt underused, as did his replacement Murakami, or Sowande, both of whom got talked up about hunting various rare and deadly creatures with their bare hands or having a deadly martial arts death-touch, and then a fat stack of jack, while Alexandra got scene after tedious scene of talking about how old she is.

Man, I feel like we got cheated out of a Daughters of the Dragon series, with Misty and Colleen (guest-starring Claire, and various others, at most).

[j9ac9k]

I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked that the guy who promoted Iron Fist like this could be racist against Asians:



(Also a reminder that Jessica Henwick told him to take that headband off at the panel.)

Good for Henwick.

I shudder to think what he wore when he promoted "Luke Cage"...

[Comic-Reader Lad]

I'm not in the loop as to what the "headband" thing is referring to.

[Powerboy]

No idea what to think about Loeb (other than the headband thing is not helping with the 'not a racist' argument), but Nabu definitely felt underused, as did his replacement Murakami, or Sowande, both of whom got talked up about hunting various rare and deadly creatures with their bare hands or having a deadly martial arts death-touch, and then a fat stack of jack, while Alexandra got scene after tedious scene of talking about how old she is.

Man, I feel like we got cheated out of a Daughters of the Dragon series, with Misty and Colleen (guest-starring Claire, and various others, at most).

Him in the headband plays into the whole "Cultural Appropriation" debate. You are not allowed to wear something mostly associated with another race because you don't have the negative cultural experiences of that race. You haven't felt the persecution so you cannot show interest in that culture to the point of imitation. Someone Loeb's age may be oblivious to something that is a far more recent phenomenon in terms of something to be offended by.

Loeb seems to generally not be liked. If he was saying that he doesn't care about plots involving Asians, that's bad. If he was saying he thinks the audience won't be interested, he may be right or wrong but it's more a comment about what he thinks will and won't draw an audience, very similar to the controversies over the Airbender stuff or the Last Samurai or, heck, casting David Carradine as Caine.

Or it may well be that he just thought a prolonged story about the backgrounds of two characters who were not even the main villains would lose the audience's interest.

[Powerboy]

I'm not in the loop as to what the "headband" thing is referring to.

Yeah, I would never have thought about it other than he's dressing like the character had people not been going off about it. I took it as more like he was trying to be Daniel LaRusso in the Karate Kid.

To me, that sort of "cultural appropriation" just isn't on my radar.

There are exceptions.

Blackface = BAD. Racist. Just NO.

Wearing clothing associated with a specific race? Yes. And?

To me, had he come out dressed as 1970s Luke Cage, that would be like dressing in bell-buttons, a headband and a shirt that says, "Make Love, Not War". It's more a tribute to a bygone era than anything else.

[Sammael]

Damn. I was a big fan of Gao but felt she went out on a whimper. I didn't care for Nobu but maybe these dropped storylines would've changed that. A multiracial Iron Fist could've been interesting but Danny's pretty weak as a character to me so its more of a step one type decision than an automatic game-changer.

Having Danny's mom be from Kun Lun would have been a good way to try that out as well as giving his mom more to do.

Granted i rather they just give an asian character the leg up and put Danny on the shelf. Trust me Colleen was the better lead character both seasons.

The Blade story does feel like an exaggeration but its a possibility Shinkoda was remembering what someone told him anecdotally.

One of the enemies in ironfist was a better lead than all of them, the drunken fight guy,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIWVF_IXau0


I wanted to see more of that guy on screen, I think he might have gone for the Danny role, should have given it to him.

[Sammael]

I don't know about any of this.

First, in the Entertainment Weekly article linked at the OP, we don't really get a sense that Jeph Loeb actually said "nobody gives a shit about Asian people." To me, that was the actor's paraphrasing because at first he says Loeb said, "nobody cares about Chinese people and Asian people." as Loeb's rationale for cutting the backstory of his character.

In either case, Jeph Loeb is NOT saying that HE does not care about Asians. If the story is true at all, it could be that Loeb is supposing that the general public doesn't care. The quote is "nobody cares," not "I don't care." Loeb may be wrong about the general public or is underestimating them, but it's not crazy to think that in a Daredevil show, the general public would not be interested in a protracted storyline about side characters. I haven't watched the DD series yet, but even from the comics, the characters of Nobu and Madame Gao, the Asian characters in question, are not characters I remember from what I've read. I don't know if I'd be interested in tons of screen time being devoted to exploring their pasts -- whether they were Asian or not.

Quite frankly, Hollywood does this thing all the time because they make assumptions about what the general public wants to see. Nobody seemed to "give a shit" that Batwoman's Jewish background was downplayed and pretty much outright removed from her character, and the new Batwoman doesn't appear to be Jewish at all. Does that make Greg Berlanti a "terrible person," or is he just making assumptions on what the general public is interested in?

As far as Iron Fist is concerned, Iron Fist is a white guy. If we've gotten to the point in society where casting a white guy with a white guy is controversial, then I give up. Given today's triggered social media climate, if Marvel DID make Iron Fist Asian, I'm sure there would have been a whole contingent of people who were insulted that Marvel's first Asian-led series featured a character who was a marital arts expert because that would be stereotypical.

I'm not mad they cast Danny as a white guy, I just think the fact that there were better options like that drunken fight guy puts a damper on the casting. There is an ocean of identity based preference going on with this kind of stuff. I should make a video on it because no one seems to have the insight I have on this topic.

[Sammael]

...Wow, the tone deafness of this boggles the mind.

Does this mean I can't wear a karate uniform ever if I'm not full asian?