Under what conditions can Batman bullet time?

[Sharpandpointies]

So...if someone could move "just under the speed of sound" they could dodge most bullet's fired from a reasonable range? Or would reaction speed differ compared to how fast they can move their body?

Crossbow bolts move like a 4th as fast as bullets, I think. And Batman deals with the former with contemptuous ease. CORRECTION: I checked. Crossbow bolts are 8-9 times slower than typical bullets. Pretty big gap.

There's a huge gap. Just like there's a huge gap between, for example, bullets fired by a Webley and bullets fired by an M4. Even 'bullet-timers' are not all created equal, based on feats and at least some nod to the weapon used.

As for moving 'just under the speed of sound', if they're not just using that for travelling long distances through open environments, sure, they should have equivalent reaction speed. Someone who flies that fast, for example, might NOT unless we see them demonstrating that reaction speed in flight (flight through a building, zipping through the hallways, taking turns, avoiding people, etc). But someone who needs to 'run' at that speed? Yeah, they'd absolutely always need the reaction speed as well.

[big_adventure]

There's a huge gap. Just like there's a huge gap between, for example, bullets fired by a Webley and bullets fired by an M4. Even 'bullet-timers' are not all created equal, based on feats and at least some nod to the weapon used.

As for moving 'just under the speed of sound', if they're not just using that for travelling long distances through open environments, sure, they should have equivalent reaction speed. Someone who flies that fast, for example, might NOT unless we see them demonstrating that reaction speed in flight (flight through a building, zipping through the hallways, taking turns, avoiding people, etc). But someone who needs to 'run' at that speed? Yeah, they'd absolutely always need the reaction speed as well.

I agree in general, though I will say that, just like for a regular person, someone with enhanced reaction speed and enhanced speed would need varying degrees of it to accomplish different things at speed. You don't need to have light speed reactions to be able to run light speed. You WOULD if you were running through an office building at light speed. I'm a non-super-powered human. I can run MUCH faster in an open field than I can through my apartment in Paris. Referencing a comment I made today in another thread, I find Quicksilver's "mansion emptying" feat much more impressive than Flash's "run to china and back in 5 seconds" feat for several reasons, but the one of the biggest is that most of the run from Central City to China is over vast empty spaces where Barry should be able to attain and maintain higher speeds.

[Sharpandpointies]

My issue with this is that you're consistently needing to adjust to small changes in terrain, not step in rabbit holes, avoid stuff you see at the last second when it's in front of you, etc. If your reactions aren't up to snuff, the run is going to end pretty quick with an ugly trip or fall.

I'm perfectly good with someone having reactions = to what they can run (as long as 'running' isn't always demonstrated as 'on a perfectly flat plain with zero irregularities or stuff to avoid'). For the most part, beings have FASTER reactions than their running speed, if we can say something like that; I can catch thrown objects flying much faster than I can run, for example.

[big_adventure]

My issue with this is that you're consistently needing to adjust to small changes in terrain, not step in rabbit holes, avoid stuff you see at the last second when it's in front of you, etc. If your reactions aren't up to snuff, the run is going to end pretty quick with an ugly trip or fall.

I'm perfectly good with someone having reactions = to what they can run (as long as 'running' isn't always demonstrated as 'on a perfectly flat plain with zero irregularities or stuff to avoid'). For the most part, beings have FASTER reactions than their running speed, if we can say something like that; I can catch thrown objects flying much faster than I can run, for example.

I agree, though only when talking about having enough time to plan the catch. I can catch a baseball moving 160kph (100ish Mph), but I can't do it if it's thrown from 10 feet in front of me. I need time to pick it up, time to move my glove there, etc. Same kind of thing for running. I get what you are saying, but again, I can run MUCH faster down a street or across an empty field than I can through a crowded office. That's the only distinction I'm making. I would posit that the same thing is true of speedsters, as there's nothing to contradict it and it's sort of a vague nod to "physics."

[Masonicon]

Gotham knight!Batman?

[Sharpandpointies]

I agree, though only when talking about having enough time to plan the catch. I can catch a baseball moving 160kph (100ish Mph), but I can't do it if it's thrown from 10 feet in front of me. I need time to pick it up, time to move my glove there, etc. Same kind of thing for running. I get what you are saying, but again, I can run MUCH faster down a street or across an empty field than I can through a crowded office. That's the only distinction I'm making. I would posit that the same thing is true of speedsters, as there's nothing to contradict it and it's sort of a vague nod to "physics."

I can REACT to someone throwing a snowball at me from 10' away and at least try to move. I might not be able to manage it, but that snowball is still going a huge amount faster than I can run. From 10' distance I can most certainly easily react to stuff moving as fast as I can run. Heck, at 5' distance I can do that.

At 3' distance I can react to punches, Big, and they're going a lot faster than I can run. I'm pretty sure you can as well. So unless you want to admit that punches always catch you flat-footed....

And sure, you can run much faster down a street and across an empty field. But if that field isn't perfectly flat, you still need to watch for gopher holes and lumpy areas, and adjust to that; otherwise you're heading for a fall. And figuring that Flash, running to China and back, IS going to be running through natural areas like mountainous terrain, or forests, or ocean waves, or or...it requires him to be capable of reacting to stuff that could literally trip him up. Or worse.

I, myself, am totally fine with 'people who run at superspeed have that level of reaction speed, unless ALL of the running they do is on treadmills and it's explicitly stated they can't actually react at those speeds'. It's actually lowballing them, given people can react to hand-strikes that are faster than they can run. ^_^

[big_adventure]

I can REACT to someone throwing a snowball at me from 10' away and at least try to move. I might not be able to manage it, but that snowball is still going a huge amount faster than I can run. From 10' distance I can most certainly easily react to stuff moving as fast as I can run. Heck, at 5' distance I can do that.

At 3' distance I can react to punches, Big, and they're going a lot faster than I can run. I'm pretty sure you can as well. So unless you want to admit that punches always catch you flat-footed....

And sure, you can run much faster down a street and across an empty field. But if that field isn't perfectly flat, you still need to watch for gopher holes and lumpy areas, and adjust to that; otherwise you're heading for a fall. And figuring that Flash, running to China and back, IS going to be running through natural areas like mountainous terrain, or forests, or ocean waves, or or...it requires him to be capable of reacting to stuff that could literally trip him up. Or worse.

I, myself, am totally fine with 'people who run at superspeed have that level of reaction speed, unless ALL of the running they do is on treadmills and it's explicitly stated they can't actually react at those speeds'. It's actually lowballing them, given people can react to hand-strikes that are faster than they can run. ^_^

I think that we're debating a gradiant. I agree that anyone who can run at superspeed has superspeed reactions. I'm just saying that the level of reactions required to make extremely tightly controlled actions and gestures and such at mach 30000 (say, searching and emptying a mansion during an explosion while having fun and screwing around at the same time) is higher than what it would take to run across a field at mach 30000, even allowing for avoiding gopher holes. You need superspeed reflexes either way, you just need faster ones for the former example than the later, by a fair amount.

We both agree that you definitely need fast reactions to run at superspeed (or be a bullet timer, or not a bullet timer #batmanwashere).

[Sharpandpointies]

Fair enough!

I'd like to actually clock out the mansion thing to see how it compares to the 2.5 second run to China as well, to feel comfortable with any assessment. But it's not really important.

[sunofdarkchild]

This is an interesting one. At the start of the Deadshot fight in Gotham Knight Batman intercepts and punches a sniper round meant for Gordon out of the way in midair. I don't see how that can be anything other than bullet timing since he was reacting to a bullet that wasn't even fired at him and which he was pretty far away from when it was fired. Then when Deadshot switches to an automatic weapon he seems to dodge after the bullets are fired. But very quickly afterwards he's relying entirely on his armor and not dodging at all, then he takes a bad hit. And at the end of the fight that's definitely moving faster than Deadshot can move his arm rather than reacting to the shots themselves. It seems like a feat he can't replicate once the circumstances change, but sniper rounds should still be faster than automatic rounds.

[Guy1]

[Guy1]

[Len Ikari145]

[Nik Hasta]

Len.

1) Your hotlinking hasn't worked.

2) You are hotlinking directly from a scanlations hosting site which is a no-no on the board.

Download the images, put them on imgur and post correct links.

[Len Ikari145]

Len.

1) Your hotlinking hasn't worked.

2) You are hotlinking directly from a scanlations hosting site which is a no-no on the board.

Download the images, put them on imgur and post correct links.

D'oh it all!>_<

[Marvel-Studios Rep]

Would you guys say Bruce can move too fast for a regular human being to see? We know he can punch so fast people cannot react and that shooters can't get a bid on him. However, I wonder if he has any feats of outright not being seen. Could Batman mmove so fast no one could see him for say 2-3 seconds? Is someone who can move that fast able to react to a bullet from far enough away?