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  1. #61
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    The movies made the drugging Famous.

    The Drugging was retconed before Flashpoint. The movies purposefully went that way [James tucker claims to keenly follow Damian so he would have been aware when Morrison changed it in a Damian story]
    Yes, they purposefully went that way - as I said it's not a 1 to 1 adaptation of the comic, it fits the villainous turn/take on Talia, and I disagree that the movies made it famous - I knew of the drugging before the movie and was unaware of the retcon. Chances are if you weren't reading the comics and were aware of it you'd be more aware of the drugging than the retcon. I think Tucker made the right choice there

  2. #62
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I assume Talia will take the narrative heavy lifting over from Ra's since he won't have a VA in the movie.

  3. #63
    Caperucita Roja Zaresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I assume Talia will take the narrative heavy lifting over from Ra's since he won't have a VA in the movie.
    A pity. I love Jason Isaacs' voice. He was a great choice for the movie.
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  4. #64
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaresh View Post
    A pity. I love Jason Isaacs' voice. He was a great choice for the movie.
    Agreed, but it probably would have cost more or taken more effort to get him back versus who they actually have in the movie. Which is probably why Ackles isn't back for more Red Hood content.

    That being said, I'm excited to hear Zehra Fazal as Talia .

  5. #65
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    I'm interested and enough of a forgiver toward Bat media that I'm almost certainly going to purchase the Blu ray for the interactive aspect and I'm sure I'm going to be disappointed by it. (And hopefully with these expectations, I might enjoy it)

    Here's my main thought on this however -- it is remarkable to me how consistently DC has pushed Death In The Family and The Killing Joke as being the premier Bat stories, always being reprinted and reappropriated or homaged or adapted. Maybe it's not really, but it just feels like DC prizes these stories so much higher than almost any others besides the Miller Dark Knight books. Why?

    Why are these stories definitive and remarkable? Because they're stories where the Joker wins by torturing and killing or maiming Robin or Batgirl. So they feel like more important stories because the stakes are getting raised. The bad guy wins, and one of the good guys is lost in the war. It's tragic, the tension between Batman and Joker is heightened, and it's (theoretically) "shocking" that the story would do such a thing to such a character.

    It's not just Batman ... "The Night Gwen Stacy Died" and "Death of Superman" are also equally mediocre stories that have attained "God-tier" status because they're "shocking moments." It's not just that the companies/creators push these, but also the audience eats it up, and the media hypes up the event because of the sensationalism of killing Robin or raping Batgirl, and so it becomes popular because it needed to be, not necessarily because it was good quality.

    Not sure what exactly I'm saying. It's just interesting. DC has made a fine mint having Joker kill Robins and Batgirls over the last 40 years.

    Edit -- Let me add a bit more of the positive thoughts here too.

    I really loved Under The Red Hood... it's the best version of the Jason story. I'm excited the team is getting back together -- the voice cast is actually my favorite for the characters; all love and respect to Conry and Hamill but I'm ready to be able to miss them. Bruce Greenwood especially feels very right for Bruce, and NPH as Nightwing was the best on-screen Dynamic Duo in any feature film.

    What other Bat movie comes close to Under The Red Hood in showing how effective Bruce & Dick are as a team? I'm glad this "universe" of DC film is continuing but it just feels a bit disappointing that it's just re-treading the same Jason story as the first film. But, I'm also trying to keep an open mind too -- just venting the disappointment.


    This is what I would like. This same cast and level of animation but for a Bat Family that isn't dying!! Just working a case together as a (slightly dysfunctional) family detective agency/ninja clan..
    Last edited by gregpersons; 08-02-2020 at 10:31 PM.

  6. #66
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregpersons View Post
    I'm interested and enough of a forgiver toward Bat media that I'm almost certainly going to purchase the Blu ray for the interactive aspect and I'm sure I'm going to be disappointed by it. (And hopefully with these expectations, I might enjoy it)

    Here's my main thought on this however -- it is remarkable to me how consistently DC has pushed Death In The Family and The Killing Joke as being the premier Bat stories, always being reprinted and reappropriated or homaged or adapted. Maybe it's not really, but it just feels like DC prizes these stories so much higher than almost any others besides the Miller Dark Knight books. Why?

    Why are these stories definitive and remarkable? Because they're stories where the Joker wins by torturing and killing or maiming Robin or Batgirl. So they feel like more important stories because the stakes are getting raised. The bad guy wins, and one of the good guys is lost in the war. It's tragic, the tension between Batman and Joker is heightened, and it's (theoretically) "shocking" that the story would do such a thing to such a character.

    It's not just Batman ... "The Night Gwen Stacy Died" and "Death of Superman" are also equally mediocre stories that have attained "God-tier" status because they're "shocking moments." It's not just that the companies/creators push these, but also the audience eats it up, and the media hypes up the event because of the sensationalism of killing Robin or raping Batgirl, and so it becomes popular because it needed to be, not necessarily because it was good quality.

    Not sure what exactly I'm saying. It's just interesting. DC has made a fine mint having Joker kill Robins and Batgirls over the last 40 years.

    Edit -- Let me add a bit more of the positive thoughts here too.

    I really loved Under The Red Hood... it's the best version of the Jason story. I'm excited the team is getting back together -- the voice cast is actually my favorite for the characters; all love and respect to Conry and Hamill but I'm ready to be able to miss them. Bruce Greenwood especially feels very right for Bruce, and NPH as Nightwing was the best on-screen Dynamic Duo in any feature film.

    What other Bat movie comes close to Under The Red Hood in showing how effective Bruce & Dick are as a team? I'm glad this "universe" of DC film is continuing but it just feels a bit disappointing that it's just re-treading the same Jason story as the first film. But, I'm also trying to keep an open mind too -- just venting the disappointment.


    This is what I would like. This same cast and level of animation but for a Bat Family that isn't dying!! Just working a case together as a (slightly dysfunctional) family detective agency/ninja clan..
    A few things...
    1. The Killing Joke isn't mediocre. You may not like it personally, but with the fan base it has thinking it's not good just because it isn't your kind of story isn't right.
    2. Nightwing is really such a small part of the movie and ineffective that I wouldn't call it a positive for him.
    3. And while not terrible, NPH was just okay as Nightwing at best. He was far better as Flash in New Frontier.

  7. #67
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    I sometimes feel that Death in the Family is an event comic that’s good but not great outside of it’s impact, while The Killing Joke is a great Joker monologue, but a so-so Batman story and a bad “Batfamily” story if you were picking it up for Batgirl. I prefer DITF by quite a lot, but I’m also the weirdo who’s just not interested in even the Joker movie - I like him as an antagonist, and have no interest or care for him as a protagonist, unlike with Lex Luthor or other villains.

    The thing is, though, that I don’t think that the DITF part of this film is going to be that big; likely a little larger than what ended up in Under the Red Hood, but not especially so. And since the Under The Red Hood story (especially in the animated format, where Judd Winick worked hard to improve the story from its good but flawed original form) and its alternative counterparts are pretty much guaranteed to be the meat of the story, I think the value of this film is going to fall on how well written the alternative stories are written, and on any changes or enhancements they add to the Red Hood route.

    And if you’re looking for a story of the Batfamily just working together, that is one of the subplots of this little show called Young Justice...
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  8. #68
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    I sometimes feel that Death in the Family is an event comic that’s good but not great outside of it’s impact, while The Killing Joke is a great Joker monologue, but a so-so Batman story and a bad “Batfamily” story if you were picking it up for Batgirl. I prefer DITF by quite a lot, but I’m also the weirdo who’s just not interested in even the Joker movie - I like him as an antagonist, and have no interest or care for him as a protagonist, unlike with Lex Luthor or other villains.

    The thing is, though, that I don’t think that the DITF part of this film is going to be that big; likely a little larger than what ended up in Under the Red Hood, but not especially so. And since the Under The Red Hood story (especially in the animated format, where Judd Winick worked hard to improve the story from its good but flawed original form) and its alternative counterparts are pretty much guaranteed to be the meat of the story, I think the value of this film is going to fall on how well written the alternative stories are written, and on any changes or enhancements they add to the Red Hood route.
    I think the Red Hood route is just going to be a cliff-notes version of the original movie. They didn't even get Jensen Ackles back so there's not likely to be anything new unless they add another coda to the story.

    One could even argue that DiTF is additive to the Batfamily in the sense that it led to the creation of Red Hood and Jason's lasting legacy.
    And if you’re looking for a story of the Batfamily just working together, that is one of the subplots of this little show called Young Justice...
    Well, aside from Tim and anyone not named Babs and Dick (and even then, it's not very in-depth Batfamily focus).

  9. #69
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Here is the film's intro sequence:


  10. #70
    Astonishing Member Dark_Tzitzimine's Avatar
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    That's a pretty cool intro.

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