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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member mathew101281's Avatar
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    Default Shazam and Black Adam's invulnerability should be different from Superman's

    It makes no sense for magical beings with magic invulnerability to be just as weak against magical attacks as a being who's invulnerability isn't magical in nature. The way I see Superman and Shazam's power levels are that Superman has better strength and suplimentary powers (hearing heat vision etc), but Shazam is more durable against certain types of attacks and his one distance attack is magical and thus can harm Superman. speed wise they seem pretty even to me.

  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Well, I'm not sure magic beings have a specific invulnerability to magic. But I wouldn't be totally opposed to Shazam being better able to absorb a magic lightning strike from Black Adam than Superman, for example.

  3. #3
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    I am not sure, but maybe Superman, Shazam, Black Adam etc could have the same total invulnerability level, but within that level, different amounts of protection for certain things. For example, both would have the same bullet immunity, but against lightning, Supes would be weaker, against magic in general Supes would be weaker, etc. That sort of thing.

  4. #4
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    I think it has to be magic lightning for Superman to be weaker to it. We've all seen that Golden Age cover of Superman getting hit by a lightning bolt and saying "It tickles!"

    Worth noting I can think of at least one time that Captain Marvel knocked Superman out - in Crisis Times Five - but while Cap did give his punch a "Zeus Boost" with the lightning, Superman was still standing just fine until the second hit, and even with the Zeus Boost, Captain Marvel's bigger advantage seemed to be that Superman was caught totally off guard, rather than the magic.

    I'd like to think that vulnerability to magic and all, Superman would still have a chance at soloing Black Adam.
    Last edited by Adekis; 07-29-2020 at 01:10 PM.
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  5. #5
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Where do all 3 stand in terms of strength?

    (Sometimes the amount of invulnerability is approximate to the amount of strength of a character.)
    Last edited by Phoenixx9; 07-29-2020 at 12:55 PM.

  6. #6
    Fantastic Member Alphaxman's Avatar
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    I know it doesn't make any sense but I always thought Superman should be as vulnerable to magic as any other human. Like hell fire should burn him like regular fire would burn Batman -- he would just heal from it. It would be nice to see him act super cautious around magic because it can hurt him unlike nearly everything else. I hate seeing him shrug off magical bolts like they're laser beams or whatever.

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    I'm of the pretty firm opinion that Superman should be more durable against magic than most people, just less durable against it than he is against most other things. If an evil wizard is casting magic missile at the World's Finest Team, it still should make sense for Superman to tank it if they're in a tight space and that's the only way to keep it from hitting Batman or Robin.

    However, the magic missile might make Superman cry out in pain like STAS, maybe char his costume a little, where the same magic bolt would have killed Batman. By contrast, if it wasn't a magic bolt, it shouldn't have done anything to him at all. And Shazam, Captain Marvel, or Black Adam, should all just be able to tank the magic missile as easily as any other attack.
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  8. #8
    Mighty Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alphaxman View Post
    I know it doesn't make any sense but I always thought Superman should be as vulnerable to magic as any other human. Like hell fire should burn him like regular fire would burn Batman -- he would just heal from it. It would be nice to see him act super cautious around magic because it can hurt him unlike nearly everything else. I hate seeing him shrug off magical bolts like they're laser beams or whatever.
    As long he isn't more vulnarable than any human, like some writers like to portray him, I'm fine.

  9. #9
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    I would go the opposite direction. I'm not a fan at all of Superman having 'magic' as a weakness. Just the complications of whether it's a magic weapon... the person holding it is magic, does it cut 'more' than a normal weapon would or should it splatter him like a normal human... it's been insanely inconsistent over what is and isn't magic and what effect it really has. I say ditch the whole thing. Invulnerablity is invulnerability. Lighting or Magic Lightning is still lightning. Let him be fooled by illusions or mind contol or magically summoned dragons or what not... but anything trying to break his skin has just as tough time regardless of where it came from.

    As for Shazam and Black Adam? They are creatures MADE from magic. It actually makes MORE sense that you would NEED Magic to hurt them. Magic items should be able to slide right past their invulnerability a lot easier. Similar to the way the Spectre got stabbed by the Spear of Destiny.

  10. #10
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    yes, I agree, all of them were just like the same in power. Are they from the same family?
    Their power vulnerability should have differences.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    I think it has to be magic lightning for Superman to be weaker to it. We've all seen that Golden Age cover of Superman getting hit by a lightning bolt and saying "It tickles!"
    Sorry, sure that its Superman?

    I remember this scene from Superboy Prime vs Black Adam...

    There Black Adam fights against Superboy Prime, punches him and asks him if it hurts and Superboy Prime says: It tickles.....

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    Sorry, sure that its Superman?

    I remember this scene from Superboy Prime vs Black Adam...

    There Black Adam fights against Superboy Prime, punches him and asks him if it hurts and Superboy Prime says: It tickles.....
    I think that was kind of a corner case though. They were pushing the idea that Superboy Prime was full pre-crisis powers and even the things that could normally stop Superman 'just tickles' Prime. Anyone who takes a hit from Black Adam and grins is meant to make you wet yourself a little.

  13. #13
    Fantastic Member Alphaxman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    I would go the opposite direction. I'm not a fan at all of Superman having 'magic' as a weakness. Just the complications of whether it's a magic weapon... the person holding it is magic, does it cut 'more' than a normal weapon would or should it splatter him like a normal human... it's been insanely inconsistent over what is and isn't magic and what effect it really has. I say ditch the whole thing. Invulnerablity is invulnerability. Lighting or Magic Lightning is still lightning. Let him be fooled by illusions or mind contol or magically summoned dragons or what not... but anything trying to break his skin has just as tough time regardless of where it came from.

    I'm not really into that. Maybe because I'm not the biggest Supes fan so I don't like it when he's the "best at everything". Magic is basically rewriting reality to fit the user's will, depending on their power-level and imagination. So I don't feel Superman, a being of "science" should be exempt to magic's effects. Like I said, I think magic should affect him just like it would affect Lois or any other human. But when it comes to magically based heroes like Cap and Wonder Woman, they should have a lot more durability against magical attacks, like "bolts" and certain spells.
    Like, let say Doctor Psycho tried to mentally manipulate Supes, he would have difficulty because of Superman's strong will and "super-brain". Conversely, if Zatanna or Mordru wanted to erase his memory or dominate his mind, Superman would fall just like any other mortal who didn't have magical training or ability to fight against it.
    That's why I hate it when I see him manhandling magical beings like gods or demons like they're super-aliens. He should struggle. He should ask for help from Zatanna or Dr. Fate or God forbid, Constantine (I hate him) when he comes across powerful magical threats. He can survive a nuclear blast but be fried to the bone by a fully powered Trigon.

    ***Speaking of which -- I can't stand that Bizzaro was able to beat Trigon in the latest issue of Red Hood. DC is pwning him like Marvel is doing Galactus. JUST NOT RIGHT!!!!

    I also liked during Kingdom Come that Diana's blade was able to cut his finger, the same way it would cut anyone else's.
    I want "reasonable" limits on Superman and magic is the antithesis of reason.

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    I am not sure, but maybe Superman, Shazam, Black Adam etc could have the same total invulnerability level, but within that level, different amounts of protection for certain things. For example, both would have the same bullet immunity, but against lightning, Supes would be weaker, against magic in general Supes would be weaker, etc. That sort of thing.
    So what things should Shazam be more vulnerable to??

  15. #15
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    So what things should Shazam be more vulnerable to??
    Again, not sure, I am not an expert on either character. For Shazam, maybe more generic energy blasts (non-lightning) and/or GL energy blasts/constructs?

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