View Poll Results: Legion

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  • Early Adventure Comics

    10 6.06%
  • Superboy & the Legion

    22 13.33%
  • Paul Levitz/Keith Giffen plus Baxter book

    64 38.79%
  • Five Years Later Legion

    17 10.30%
  • Zero Hour Reboot

    19 11.52%
  • Mark Waid Threeboot

    4 2.42%
  • Post Infinite Crisis

    10 6.06%
  • New 52 Legion

    2 1.21%
  • Current Bendis Legion

    8 4.85%
  • Other

    9 5.45%
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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thirteen View Post
    I can see the desire to update Dawnstar's Space Native couture into something less sexualized but I think the "Spirit wings" are where the redesign looses me. I could be wrong. Not a dealbreaker until I see more of how they depicted in action.


    You see, that bugs me if that is the case, I don't think her costume is anymore sexualized than say Wonder Woman, and why can't we have a super hot First Nations superheroine anyways. Should we get rid of Wonder Woman's star spangled tights? Breast reduction for Power Girl? Ban Black Canary's fish net stockings? Seriously some people need a pop in the head. Apologies I digress...


    The original costume just looks far cooler than the new costume, and that's why Dawnstar became one of my favourite superheroes when I was young. I just thought she looked super cool, and I would like her costume back for the next Legion reboot.

  2. #47
    Ultimate Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    In many cases it's not the costume so much as how the artist chooses to render the character. A super deep V like Dawnstar can be fine, as women sometimes wear that IRL and remain tasteful because they have realistic breasts. The problem is when an artist draws that costume on a woman with crazy breasts where it's nothing but cleavage. Then people start blaming the design rather than how it's interpreted.

  3. #48
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    The costume aside, I've always been an admirer of well rendered wings. I think that's a big feature of Dawnstar's look (never mind the science). Seems like Sook didn't want the headache.

    If this was the next generation that would have made it so easy to go along with the new designs. A simple fix.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    The costume aside, I've always been an admirer of well rendered wings. I think that's a big feature of Dawnstar's look (never mind the science). Seems like Sook didn't want the headache.
    Yeah, the wings were beautiful, but I can also see how an artist wouldn't want to deal with the individual feathers and stuff on a book where he has to draw 25 plus characters *every single issue,* because the writer insists on having the entire team run around in some lumbering herd like children on a museum tour, together every second, instead of separating into manageable groups.

    I can also see energy wings being much easier to deal with for any eventual live-action show, as the CGI for feathery wings, even with people who have dumptrucks of money to spend on CGI (like the eagles in the Hobbit), tends to look god-awful.

    And I think Dawny, Dreamy, Shady, etc. look sexy as hell in full-body stockings, with barely any skin other than faces, hands and maybe shoulders and upper arms showing. It's just sensible for a not-invulnerable person in an active life full of fiery explosions and shrapnel and alien blood flying everywhere. If Laurel Kent wants to show up in a thong and pasties, at least *that makes sense*, even if, in her case, I loved the S-poncho.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    In many cases it's not the costume so much as how the artist chooses to render the character. A super deep V like Dawnstar can be fine, as women sometimes wear that IRL and remain tasteful because they have realistic breasts. The problem is when an artist draws that costume on a woman with crazy breasts where it's nothing but cleavage. Then people start blaming the design rather than how it's interpreted.
    I suppose, I think my perspective may be hindered in that I started reading the Legion of Super Heroes at a very young age, so I would have been incapable of judging any sexual overtones in her costume.
    I think the cleavage is more apparent in later versions, as opposed to the picture above.

    Overall I think the old costume (The V aside) made her look more strong and empowering, a decisive woman, where the newer look makes her look more young and meek.

  6. #51
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Even the updated versions she latter wore was miles better than the current racist sterotype look she has now.


  7. #52
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    I never thought of it that way, but I suppose your right. Women of First Nations decent in Canada will often have subtle necklaces or jackets that reflect their cultural heritage, but otherwise they dress completely modern. I've never seen an individual walking around in 19th century regalia like the current Dawnstar costume.

    Anyhow, I just think the current costume makes her look submissive and meek for some reason, but as I no longer follow the Legion of Super Heroes, I suppose it's a mute point.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    Yeah, the wings were beautiful, but I can also see how an artist wouldn't want to deal with the individual feathers and stuff on a book where he has to draw 25 plus characters *every single issue,* because the writer insists on having the entire team run around in some lumbering herd like children on a museum tour, together every second, instead of separating into manageable groups.

    I can also see energy wings being much easier to deal with for any eventual live-action show, as the CGI for feathery wings, even with people who have dumptrucks of money to spend on CGI (like the eagles in the Hobbit), tends to look god-awful.
    However, for inkers back in the day, this would have been much more labour intensive, as they would have to hand ink with brushes those wings to a strict deadline (and not get paid that well). It's quite impressive the kind of wings that Murphy Anderson inked.

    Nowadays, technology makes that a lot easier--and it might not be the penciller or the inker that's doing the work, but somebody in colour production. I see a lot of really complex designs on comic pages that they wouldn't have even bothered to attempt back in the day (unless it was a Filipino inker like Nestor Redondo or Alfredo Alcala).

    Dawnstar's original design should be put in the context of the time. Those fringe leather outfits were all the rage in the 1970s--and white women had no qualms about appropriating native culture.

    I don't know if it was Mike Grell or Jim Sherman who designed Dawnstar--since Grell did the cover but Sherman did the interior art (SUPERBOY 226)--probably Grell as it fits with his other designs for Legionnaires, male and female, who all looked like they were dancers in a Las Vegas revue. Dawny wasn't showing more skin than the other women on the team (and one or two men).

    Maybe the inspiration was Cher--whose song, "Half-Breed," was No.1 on the Billboard Hot 100 in 1973. Cher does have Cherokee ancestry.



    I'm not against a change in design. It is the future and Starhaven's history is a complicated one. But I just don't recognize the Bendis and Sook creation as the same character. What would it have hurt to make her the daughter, niece, granddaughter of the original character?

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by The no face guy View Post


    You see, that bugs me if that is the case, I don't think her costume is anymore sexualized than say Wonder Woman, and why can't we have a super hot First Nations superheroine anyways. Should we get rid of Wonder Woman's star spangled tights? Breast reduction for Power Girl? Ban Black Canary's fish net stockings? Seriously some people need a pop in the head. Apologies I digress...


    The original costume just looks far cooler than the new costume, and that's why Dawnstar became one of my favourite superheroes when I was young. I just thought she looked super cool, and I would like her costume back for the next Legion reboot.
    I loved everything about that look - the color, the outfit, the headband, the wings, the boots, and the fringe. And I love the name Dawnstar.

  10. #55
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    It's all settled than Dawnstar's old costume was the best, and she is the most underappreciated, underused, coolest superheroine on the Legion of Super Heroes. Hopefully in 5 years from now someone at creative will revamp the old look.

  11. #56
    Astonishing Member Thirteen's Avatar
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    (not to drift too far from the intended topic of this thread but since I kinda steered it off course to begin with...)

    I wouldn't correlate the lack of a deep V cleavage bearing top with hip bearing lower quarter outfit to a character looking "submissive and meek" instead of "powerful".
    I also wouldn't characterize use of traditional native garb features (fringe, turquoise etc) as "racist stereotype".

    As I said I have some issues with the new design, "Spirit wings" don't have the majesty of featured wings, or even the simplified versions used in animated adaptations of Dawnstar. And that design on her torso falls into the "take one thing away to make sure your ensemble isn't too cluttered".

    But I'm giving it time so see more on panel portrayals before coming to my final conclusion.


  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by The no face guy View Post
    It's all settled than Dawnstar's old costume was the best, and she is the most underappreciated, underused, coolest superheroine on the Legion of Super Heroes. Hopefully in 5 years from now someone at creative will revamp the old look.
    Well, Dream Girl and Bouncing Boy have always been my two favourite Legionnaires--both their look and their character--and their redesigns are just as off putting.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by married guy View Post
    I actually voted for the Zero Hour reboot.
    Now Levitz and Giffen are obviously the benchmark, but I thought the Zero Hour reboot was really well done.
    While not perfect, it was FAR superior to anything that came after and when at it's best was up there with the best of 'em.
    I voted Zero Hour reboot as well.

    I think it’s main advantages in hindsight are that it feels more like an adaptation of the Legion than a reboot, breaking some cardinal rules of the formula but doing so without an obnoxiously superior attitude, and that it’s lacks some of the later reboots’ “Nostalgia.... but DARK!” ideas that could get tired and feel spiteful at a certain point. It’s sort of like the “Deep Space 9“ of the Legions’ “Star Trek”; it’s not by any means exceptionally faithful to the “doctrine” of LOS’s reboots... but it’s still faithful to the fundamental aspects.

    ...Also, I love the costume designs of that era.
    Like action, adventure, rogues, and outlaws? Like anti-heroes, femme fatales, mysteries and thrillers?

    I wrote a book with them. Outlaw’s Shadow: A Sherwood Noir. Robin Hood’s evil counterpart, Guy of Gisbourne, is the main character. Feel free to give it a look: https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asi...E2PKBNJFH76GQP

  14. #59

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    The DnA era including Legion Lost, Legion Worlds, and The Legion.

  15. #60
    Incredible Member Captain Britain of Earth 20's Avatar
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    Love what Bendis is doing yet I voted for Superboy & Legion of Superheroes because that's what I grew up with (I'M old)
    Be yourself everyone is taken !! I'm an X-Man trapped in the DC omniverse

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