Is Odionson worthy again?

[Panic]

He was sent to earth to learn humility, remember? Not saying he was a complete douche, he had heroic qualities certainly, but kind of a jerk, yeah

He wasn't actually shown as very arrogant, and certainly didn't behave terribly. The two instances of "arrogance" that Odin punished him for were not bad at all: Thor breaks the treaty with the giants by crossing into their lands chasing a murderous bird-demon, arguing that it will kill giants much as it has been killing Asgardians, and therefore crossing the border is justified; when he succeeds he is discovered by the giants, who ignore his explanation and try to kill him. Thor fights them off (without killing them) and leaves when Baldur shows up to tell him he must go. I'll put up a truncated version here:


The second incident is a brawl at an Asgardian tavern where Thor is accused of cheating at arm-wrestling; when he refuses to admit he was cheating (he wasn't), his opponent draws his sword and comes at Thor and the Warriors Three with his gang; they are easily defeated, and Thor leaves when he hears his father summon him:


Really the arrogance thing was to explain why Odin would exile Thor as Blake, something needed after Stan decided he could get more mileage out of Thor actually being Thor rather than a mortal with the powers of Thor. Young Thor was never shown as arrogant in Stan's stories, and contemporary Thor was likewise very noble.

And the new idea that Thor was some sort of jerk before his time as Blake is not supported by the Lee/Kirby stories at all, especially as the young Thor shown in the Tales of Asgard back-up strip is shown to be just as noble as the post-Blake Thor in the main strip - same personality more or less.

[Triniking1234]

I think someone posted some old Kirby's Thor back ups that contradicts pre-Blake Thor was a d-bag.

One where kid Thor and kid Loki snuck into a barracks to see the adults practice and when they get caught they automatically blame Loki but Thor says it was his idea. Then there was one where Thor meets Hela for the first time after Hela kidnaps Sif (?) for kicks and says she'll only give her back if he gives up his soul to her and Thor says "OK" and Hela was like "WTF? I wasn't expecting you to go along" and lets them both go so she doesn't get in trouble with Odin.

[Frontier]

He wasn't actually shown as very arrogant, and certainly didn't behave terribly. The two instances of "arrogance" that Odin punished him for were not bad at all: Thor breaks the treaty with the giants by crossing into their lands chasing a murderous bird-demon, arguing that it will kill giants much as it has been killing Asgardians, and therefore crossing the border is justified; when he succeeds he is discovered by the giants, who ignore his explanation and try to kill him. Thor fights them off (without killing them) and leaves when Baldur shows up to tell him he must go. I'll put up a truncated version here:


The second incident is a brawl at an Asgardian tavern where Thor is accused of cheating at arm-wrestling; when he refuses to admit he was cheating (he wasn't), his opponent draws his sword and comes at Thor and the Warriors Three with his gang; they are easily defeated, and Thor leaves when he hears his father summon him:


Really the arrogance thing was to explain why Odin would exile Thor as Blake, something needed after Stan decided he could get more mileage out of Thor actually being Thor rather than a mortal with the powers of Thor. Young Thor was never shown as arrogant in Stan's stories, and contemporary Thor was likewise very noble.

And the new idea that Thor was some sort of jerk before his time as Blake is not supported by the Lee/Kirby stories at all, especially as the young Thor shown in the Tales of Asgard back-up strip is shown to be just as noble as the post-Blake Thor in the main strip - same personality more or less.

Yeah, Aaron's drunk, womanizing, shallow young Thor is his own invention more or less.

[ciscostudent561]

Yeah, Aaron's drunk, womanizing, shallow young Thor is his own invention more or less.

I don't think Pre-Blake Thor was a d-bag. But I do think Aaron's young Thor was medieval times, vs those scans were centuries later, like right before exile so the timing can fit a lil bit actually.
Also original sin was garbage.

[XPac]

Yeah, Aaron's drunk, womanizing, shallow young Thor is his own invention more or less.

Even if it was, I DO think it's justifiable to write Thor that way given the whole point of him being Donald Blake was to teach him humanity. Even if that was a later retcon, writing Thor that way still fits with the retcon.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Even if it was, I DO think it's justifiable to write Thor that way given the whole point of him being Donald Blake was to teach him humanity. Even if that was a later retcon, writing Thor that way still fits with the retcon.

There are degrees, though. Aaron's young Thor was too far in one direction, especially when contrasted with his current depiction of Thor.

[Frontier]

There are degrees, though. Aaron's young Thor was too far in one direction, especially when contrasted with his current depiction of Thor.

And then Aaron tried to retroactively make current Thor act more like his take on young Thor, which created some characterization issues.

[phantom1592]

I think the heroes who don't really know him don't necessarily like or respect him. But for those that do, I honestly believe he's one of the most respected heroes short of Steve.

It used to be the other way around. New characters were honestly pretty psyched when THE Spider-man would guest star in their book to give them the offical welcome to the Marvel universe and the 'Power and Responsibility' speech. He was like the gatekeeper to the MU. He teamed up with everyone! And a lot of the young groups were pretty awestruck.

[Triniking1234]

"Thor's worthy?"

"Always has been"

[Huntsman Spider]

It used to be the other way around. New characters were honestly pretty psyched when THE Spider-man would guest star in their book to give them the offical welcome to the Marvel universe and the 'Power and Responsibility' speech. He was like the gatekeeper to the MU. He teamed up with everyone! And a lot of the young groups were pretty awestruck.

Indeed. Those were the days. Then someone got the idea that Spidey being so respected by the younger/newer characters, among others, made him less "relatable" to the readership or whatever, and . . .

[TheCape]

Indeed. Those were the days. Then someone got the idea that Spidey being so respected by the younger/newer characters, among others, made him less "relatable" to the readership or whatever, and . . .

Honestly, i usually like the scenes when Peter tries to give advice to teenage superheroes, if just feels so in characther for him.

[Panic]

And then Aaron tried to retroactively make current Thor act more like his take on young Thor, which created some characterization issues.

This is it exactly. It's not just that Aaron & co have taken to rewriting Thor's history to make him an arrogant jerk pre-Blake, it's that they are then using this to justify writing contemporary Thor the same way. "Thor has always had a problem with arrogance," I once heard someone say in defence of the current characterisation of Thor. It's simply not true.

[The Cool Thatguy]

This is it exactly. It's not just that Aaron & co have taken to rewriting Thor's history to make him an arrogant jerk pre-Blake, it's that they are then using this to justify writing contemporary Thor the same way. "Thor has always had a problem with arrogance," I once heard someone say in defence of the current characterisation of Thor. It's simply not true.

Aaron's Thor sucked on many levels and was very problematic on several.

The biggest one for me was Thor's depression making him 'unworthy'.

The real world message, that in a depression you are actually as worthless as you feel? Yeah, it shouldn't be too hard to see why that's a crappy message.

And frankly, the internal logic is kinda dumb. So the 'worthiness' is determined by someone's self image? People would be picking that hammer up left and right!

[Frontier]

Aaron's Thor sucked on many levels and was very problematic on several.

The biggest one for me was Thor's depression making him 'unworthy'.

The real world message, that in a depression you are actually as worthless as you feel? Yeah, it shouldn't be too hard to see why that's a crappy message.

And frankly, the internal logic is kinda dumb. So the 'worthiness' is determined by someone's self image? People would be picking that hammer up left and right!

It didn't help that Aaron seemed to go back-and-forth on whether Worthiness was defined by a characters inherent integrity, their style of living, or how they felt about themselves.

[TheCape]

It didn't help that Aaron seemed to go back-and-forth on whether Worthiness was defined by a characters inherent integrity, their style of living, or how they felt about themselves.

That hammer didn't know what it wanted, is like teenager trying to decide his college education while in hightschool (or that what i tell myself when i read about Aaron's run for other fans).