Process of Elimination: Who can we be sure Kindred ain't? SPOILERS

[Spidey_62]

I will praise pre-retcon Judas Traveller all day any day. Retcon the retcon one day, somebody!

I'm glad from the looks of it Norman still remembers Peter's identity, their post OMD interactions up to Slott's final arc just never sat right for me. I think due in part to Osborn not really being in the Spidey stable for a good number of years with Civil War/Secret Invasion/Dark Reign era stuff, to be fair if Norman did remember around those times Peter's life probably would have been even worse. Might be arguable that it was a bit of a missed opportunity because we all know how much of a back seat Spidey took during that whole era despite his arch-nemesis being in such a position of power. We only got a few stories centered on Norman in that era in Spidey books but I always got the distinct sense that those stories didn't matter because it wasn't the main 'event' book. Pretty weak if you ask me. Anyway, I'm glad he's really back proper in Spidey's corner as of the last couple years.

Ottley Green Goblin is looking so sharp, plus it looks like Bagley will get a chance to draw 616 Goblin which he really hasn't done in the classic costume before (I know he did the Pulse story but that was with the cool Ramos early 2000s redesign). I'm excited for the Kurt Busiek and Tradd Moore story.

Also yeah, Peter and Norman team up to fight Sin-Eater and all of his army of folks in Ravencroft it looks like. In the screencap above that double-page spread was shown in a Marvel Previews catalogue a couple months back, looks slick.

[chachi]

I've ruled out Galactus and Herbie the Robot.

[Spiderfang]

Zahrmogg the Destroyer

[Frontier]

ASM #850 trailer.

Didn't know where else to post, seems more relevant to this thread.

"And to take him on, Spidey is going to need some back-up"

This is giving me Marvel's Spider-Man/the last era flashbacks...

[Spidey_62]

"And to take him on, Spidey is going to need some back-up"

This is giving me Marvel's Spider-Man/the last era flashbacks...

That is the one thing that also gives me pause lol. I am so over the Spider-Family getting shoehorned into big Peter stories when they don't need to be there.

[WebSlingWonder]

"And to take him on, Spidey is going to need some back-up"

This is giving me Marvel's Spider-Man/the last era flashbacks...

That is the one thing that also gives me pause lol. I am so over the Spider-Family getting shoehorned into big Peter stories when they don't need to be there.

Um, we already knew the Spider-Family was going to be involved, so why is this surprising?

[Pattern_Maker]

That is the one thing that also gives me pause lol. I am so over the Spider-Family getting shoehorned into big Peter stories when they don't need to be there.

There was a page from a comic where Kindred was looking at photos of Peter and the other spiders. His words hinted that he was intending to get rid of them so Peter would have no more allies. At least Spider-Allies. Doc-Ock is no longer Superior Spider-Man so that's one down...

[JTHM]

Kindred is Virus. That's why Eddie Brock is in the future. It's a plot to cut Peter off from his allies, even Eddie Brock

[NC_Yankee]

That is the one thing that also gives me pause lol. I am so over the Spider-Family getting shoehorned into big Peter stories when they don't need to be there.

I think the days of forcing the Spider-families into Peter books is coming to an end. Look at The Order Of The Web. You would think Peter would be in charge, because of experience and seniority, but it is Miles running things. Why? Characters like Miles and for that matter Eddie Brock do not need Peter to make it, they are already successful, and this is simply the first step. I strongly suspect that you will stop seeing Miles etc in Amazing, or Peter in Miles book as often. How? Look at the solicits for Non-Stop. Very different then Amazing. Basically different Spider comics for different kinds of readers. Non/Stop for more action type stories ( and less Peter/MJ), Miles for more teenage and modern stories, and Amazing for the traditional Peter/Spider-Man mix with the full supporting cast.

[PCN24454]

That is the one thing that also gives me pause lol. I am so over the Spider-Family getting shoehorned into big Peter stories when they don't need to be there.

To be fair, he’d never interact with them otherwise. He’d interact with literally everyone else before he’d interact with someone from the Spider Family. It’s ridiculous.

[PCN24454]

I think the days of forcing the Spider-families into Peter books is coming to an end. Look at The Order Of The Web. You would think Peter would be in charge, because of experience and seniority, but it is Miles running things. Why? Characters like Miles and for that matter Eddie Brock do not need Peter to make it, they are already successful, and this is simply the first step. I strongly suspect that you will stop seeing Miles etc in Amazing, or Peter in Miles book as often. How? Look at the solicits for Non-Stop. Very different then Amazing. Basically different Spider comics for different kinds of readers. Non/Stop for more action type stories ( and less Peter/MJ), Miles for more teenage and modern stories, and Amazing for the traditional Peter/Spider-Man mix with the full supporting cast.

Or they could cancel both books and have Peter and Miles as a duo!

[Rigel]

Someone could explain me the whole sense of the theories about "kindred could be 'pre-One More Day person'"? I'm sincerely asking, because I really don't understand. For example, the soul of pre-omd Harry isn't the same soul of post-omd harry? Making these Harrys different entities don't make sense for me.

The only entity that I could come up with in having a double of sorts, in this whole post-OMD mess, is spider-man, like, Mephisto could be lying when said that he would only be taking spidey wedding in the deal, taking his soul too. Then, in that way, could exist the actual spider-man, and the tortured soul of pre-omd spider-man in the hell.

Beyond that, for me at least, make sense that all the characters of pre-OMD are the same of post-OMD, but with their paths changed. After all, all of them are from the same 616 reality, so they can't be different, right? Or I'm confusing things?

[bob.schoonover]

Someone could explain me the whole sense of the theories about "kindred could be 'pre-One More Day person'"? I'm sincerely asking, because I really don't understand. For example, the soul of pre-omd Harry isn't the same soul of post-omd harry? Making these Harrys different entities don't make sense for me.

The only entity that I could come up with in having a double of sorts, in this whole post-OMD mess, is spider-man, like, Mephisto could be lying when said that he would only be taking spidey wedding in the deal, taking his soul too. Then, in that way, could exist the actual spider-man, and the tortured soul of pre-omd spider-man in the hell.

Beyond that, for me at least, make sense that all the characters of pre-OMD are the same of post-OMD, but with their paths changed. After all, all of them are from the same 616 reality, so they can't be different, right? Or I'm confusing things?

You're not necessarily wrong in your assessment, but demon time travel logic can be whatever the author wants it to be, so there is some wiggle room. In no particular order:

The Harry version of the theory basically posits that BND Harry is not the re-animated Harry Osborn who died in SSM 200 but is some kind of clone or Hell-duplicate. No particular mechanism for this is stated, but it rests on the idea that Harry's rebirth coincides with the event that precipitated the timeline change (the Deal with Mephisto) and that's a little off. The logical sequence there is a little iffy, but it solves the out of universe problem of Harry's rebirth being pretty uninteresting and the in-universe tease of a connection between Kindred and Norman.

People directly changed by OMD:
Peter - I think you see the essence of this just fine. As supporting evidence, we see the intimation of some sort of relationship between Norman and Kindred, and the opening arc was about Peter being split into two aspects of himself.

MJ - no one has really taken up the banner on this one, but if Kindred can be pre-OMD Peter, he can be pre-OMD MJ, too. That'd be a heck of an explanation for whatever the secret thing she whispered to Mephisto was. Out of universe, this seems unlikely since Spencer has talked about how MJ wasn't dating Peter in his original pitch.

Mayday Parker - beyond Peter and Mary Jane, the biggest upsetting of the timeline switch is whatever Marvel says happened to the baby MJ was pregnant with throughout the Clone Saga. I don't think it's her, but she must be listed for completeness/ghoulishness.

[NC_Yankee]

You're not necessarily wrong in your assessment, but demon time travel logic can be whatever the author wants it to be, so there is some wiggle room. In no particular order:

The Harry version of the theory basically posits that BND Harry is not the re-animated Harry Osborn who died in SSM 200 but is some kind of clone or Hell-duplicate. No particular mechanism for this is stated, but it rests on the idea that Harry's rebirth coincides with the event that precipitated the timeline change (the Deal with Mephisto) and that's a little off. The logical sequence there is a little iffy, but it solves the out of universe problem of Harry's rebirth being pretty uninteresting and the in-universe tease of a connection between Kindred and Norman.

People directly changed by OMD:
Peter - I think you see the essence of this just fine. As supporting evidence, we see the intimation of some sort of relationship between Norman and Kindred, and the opening arc was about Peter being split into two aspects of himself.

MJ - no one has really taken up the banner on this one, but if Kindred can be pre-OMD Peter, he can be pre-OMD MJ, too. That'd be a heck of an explanation for whatever the secret thing she whispered to Mephisto was. Out of universe, this seems unlikely since Spencer has talked about how MJ wasn't dating Peter in his original pitch.

Mayday Parker - beyond Peter and Mary Jane, the biggest upsetting of the timeline switch is whatever Marvel says happened to the baby MJ was pregnant with throughout the Clone Saga. I don't think it's her, but she must be listed for completeness/ghoulishness.

Using Mayday that way would make Sins Past, The Other and Year One look like major successes. , if Spencer uses a baby for that purpose. I can only imagine how angry the readers would be ( I certainly would be one of them). I am certain that Spencer is aware of this so he will not go in that direction. I am looking at these people. 1: Grey Goblin. 2: Ned. 3: Ezekiel. 4: Wraith. 5: Gwen. 6: Harry. Of course, the problem with Ned, Ezekiel and Wraith is what do they have to do with Norman Osborn? Of course, I was not aware of Sin Eater hating Osborn so much. I am beginning to think Grey Goblin. Why? 1: Has an ax to grind with Norm. 2: Blames Peter. 3: Has a Kindred spirit ( his sister). 4: Was evil already. 5: Spencer likes the obscure characters and he fits the bill ( especially more then Gwen and Harry).

[xpyred]

Of course, the problem with Ned, Ezekiel and Wraith is what do they have to do with Norman Osborn?

As far as Ezekiel goes, we know that he built his own company which was named Simms. He knew a ton about Peter and even had Silk under wraps for a long time. It's not out of the realm of possibility that Ezekiel and Osborn clashed in the business world. For all we know they probably had a ton of problems together behind the scenes. Remember that at one point Kraven and Kaine fought and this added fuel to the fire in Kraven for hating Spider-Man. We learned that connection through the second story that was running during the Grim Hunt storyline. What's to stop Ezekiel and Osborn from having an issue? We also know Ezekiel must have held some sort of power because of his company if he was able to finance small tribes in foreign lands. This could explain why Kingpin would bow to Kindred.

To be honest, I would prefer if Kindred was Ezekiel because that character never seemed to be as fleshed out as he could have possibly been. He appears in the Coming Home arc only to "die" at the end. He comes back when Shathra appears. Then he comes up again when he actually does die the Book of Ezekiel arc. There is so much potential for his character.