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  1. #16
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    Pre-FP Bizarro is the one from the cube world. Bizarro from the Outlaws is the second version of B-Zero, the Super-clone Lex unleashed during Forever Evil, who also turned out to be surprisingly kind of heart and warmed even our baldy's one. Then was killed.

    Current Outlaw Bizarro started as you standard gentle giant Bizarro, became super-intelligent and then lost this ability and became dumb again but mastered Zen in the process. He's absolutely awesome, hand down one of the best members of the Super-family, even if unacknowledged. Just the annual where he falls in love with a bearded woman and sees absolutely nothing strange in her and is unable to comprehend why she'd feel bad ebcause she's different from others is pure gold.
    Man thank you. I really like the Bizarro character and just wanted to find out more about the guy besides the Outlaws [i'm familar with that version]

    Can someone recommend some bizarro with Supes comic/arcs please? or even solo Bizarro stories/comics.
    I've read the rebirth Gleason story that had the bizarro family and up to date with RHATO so just need recs besides those.

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    Actually speaking about feats I would maybe rank Conner as Nr.2 behind Clark:
    He had encounters with Cyborg Superman,Aquaman,Mon-El,Doomsday Clone,Kingdom Come Superman,Gog etc. and did well.
    He was one of the few who were able to put up a fight against Superboy Prime and managed to make him bleed, he was equal to Mon-El etc.

    He was also able to react to Kingdom Come Flash who is so fast that normally only KC Superman sees him...

    The only time where we have seen his limits where the encounter with Superboy Prime and this could have been due the fact that he was only a teenager at this time.

    But if he lives up to his full potential, he is able to fight Superboy Prime-which is HIGH!! Level..



    And what I wanted to show with these three links is:

    -Jonathan Samuel Kent gets the new Superman and is the major hero/influence/idol in the LoSh timeline

    -Bizarro kills Trigon

    so the 2 get out of (almost) nowhere incredible feats,development etc. while

    -Superboy shows up and Lois looks at him and says: You look like if Clark and Lex had a baby...
    and before: did he win a contest?



    Its almost symptomatic for me for Conners Rebirth Career:
    The other 2 (Bizarro and Jon) get incredible pushes and feats and Conner, who actually was the one who fought Superboy Prime and saved Multiverse etc. gets a minor role and even 2 strange comments from Lois...



    I almost fear that he will get Jonathans Sidekick if the 2 stay together for longer...
    Welcome to being a fan of a generation that has come and gone. It's not unique to Conner.

    More importantly, you take feats way too literally. It's going to break your heart, dude. This stuff is pretty fluid. Clark was able to actually race Wally West in Titans #7 and then during Flash War he basically is able to see them but never keep up. You can argue that Wally wasn't really trying in Titans, sure. Just like you can argue that KC Flash wasn't trying... More importantly, Titans (teen or otherwise) have not been important to editorial since, what, the 80s? It's very likely the editors slept on stuff like that. Fighting Superboy Prime only looked good for Conner because he was going to die in that fight. Much like Supergirl taking it to the Anti-Monitor, characters on death's door get to get one last hail mary before they die. If Conner and Prime fought again today, Conner would get absolutely crushed.

    This is a good thing. You get to see a character you love shine because nobody is holding them back-- but make no mistake, when they enter the limelight, they will get scaled down. During their heydey? Sure, they get to be strong. Two decades later? They're going to be there to be neat, but will not supersede the new characters DC is pushing. Kon-El is not nor will he ever have Nightwing's importance for so many reasons.

  3. #18
    Extraordinary Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Actually, he didn't race wally.Wally ran past clark, came in front of him. If i remember correctly.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 08-03-2020 at 12:13 PM.

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Actually, he didn't race wally.Wally ran past clark, came in front of him. If i remember correctly.
    He bolts past Wally and then Wally catches up. They talk and afterwards Clark proposes a race. Wally agrees and Clark jokes "good, because I was going easy on you last time" or something to that effect. They race. We don't see the results because they'd obviously be humiliating for Superman, but yeah.

    My point is that we see Superman keeping up with Wally for a minute, even if he's not faster. Wally never outright says he was going easy on Clark, so powerscalers can try and use that to justify he's almost as fast as Wally. I'm arguing that feats on the printed page don't really mean much and can always be explained away or diminished in some fashion.

    Hell, the most recent big Superman feat was the multi-sundip punch from Justice League #25, and even that is seen as kind of weak given that Snyder made the mistake of trying to quantify it and thus making it unimpressive when scaled against other things that have happened in DC's publishing history.

    All of this effectively serves my argument that feats don't really amount to much in comics. They're fun to see, can be really exciting, but they don't really do much to shift a character within the internal hierarchy of characters unless they compound on each other and are supported by sales and vocal fan response. Stuff like Wally being faster than Barry or Black Canary climbing DC's martial artist list in Gail's BoP happens over a long period of time and requires a lot of elements to stick.

    Just because Bizarro took down Trigon really doesn't mean much outside the story in which it happened. It's going to be retconned or ignored because Trigon is a bigger threat than Bizarro ever was and needs to remain so for the Teen Titans to really matter. Conner getting to perceive KC Flash is a cute moment that will never really get much play outside the panel it happened because, well, Flash is a bigger IP than Superboy, especially the one they're not pushing right now. It just gets to be a fun moment to build up a character at nobody's expense that will never amount to much else. It's candy. It tastes good but offers nothing much beyond that... and that's okay! Candy can be pretty rad sometimes. I know I have moments like that I adore. Hell, a lot of them have to do with the Spectre. How does he ever job to anyone? Well, he does. Feats don't mean much.

    If we're going to look at feats and accept them as gospel, then this can't really be called anything more than poor writing and lazy editorial:

    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    Oh, there's this also:


    Everyone just conveniently forgot everything about their abilities and how to use them so Batman could win. Nevermind that even slumming it, Batman never gets beyond The Flash unless Barry is purposely losing. It requires more effort for Barry to lose than for Batman to do much of anything there, but then again, there it is on the printed page so by the OP's logic, Batman is just naturally able to take down Wonder Woman, The Flash, Green Lantern, Aquaman and Martian Manhunter with naught else than a couple gadgets and martial arts but a clown with a chemistry set takes him to task. Absolute garbage. J'onn alone can just assault Bruce's mind and put him down from another room while dipping his chocos and watching reruns. Come on, man.

    There's also the Heroes in Crisis Harley v Trinity fight or Catwoman v Three Flashes.

    This is the stuff I hate most about superhero comics. The powerscaling arguments. It's all stupid when this kind of shit can slip by, so let's just move past that. Please. Save the power scaling and feats for battle boards.
    Last edited by Robanker; 08-03-2020 at 01:15 PM.

  5. #20
    Extraordinary Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    He bolts past Wally and then Wally catches up.
    .
    Wally didn't just catch up though.See,wally bolts past him and come in front.

    At this point wally west is billed as fastest even by his mentors standards. Superman doesn't stand a chance.Sure, power scaling can be inconsistent. But, they aren't that irrelevant. At the end of the day people expect action and feats. It's natural. That's the genre. Action comics kicked off the superhero boom.
    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    Man thank you. I really like the Bizarro character and just wanted to find out more about the guy besides the Outlaws [i'm familar with that version]

    Can someone recommend some bizarro with Supes comic/arcs please? or even solo Bizarro stories/comics.
    I've read the rebirth Gleason story that had the bizarro family and up to date with RHATO so just need recs besides those.
    Do you want preflashpoint stories with clone bizzaro or precrisis stories with cube world bizzaro?Escape from bizarro world. Superman #202#379. Adventure comics #285 - 299(tales of bizarro world) .
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 08-04-2020 at 09:02 AM.

  6. #21
    Astonishing Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Wally didn't just catch up though.See,wally bolts past him and come in front.

    At this point wally west is billed as fastest even by his mentors standards. Superman doesn't stand a chance.Sure, power scaling can be inconsistent. But, they aren't that irrelevant. At the end of the day people expect action and feats. It's natural. That's the genre. Action comics kicked off the superhero boom.


    Do you want preflashpoint stories with clone bizzaro or precrisis stories with cube world bizzaro?Escape from bizarro world. Superman #202#379. Adventure comics #285 - 299(tales of bizarro world) .
    I mean if we're being pedantic, yes, he went a couple feet ahead of Clark. I am in no way saying Clark is as fast, but "catching up" means coming from behind and making pace, which is exactly what he does. It doesn't mean being exactly equal. It just means rising to that level, and he did. Neither of them are really trying as evidenced later in the book in which Clark notes he was going easy on Wally and we know Wally smokes Clark on the former's best day. All that said, it's irrelevant. When you have Harley Quinn beating up on the Trinity because DC doesn't care about this stuff, it absolutely doesn't matter because commerce will trump narrative every time. It absolutely needs to be ignored else that Batman excerpt I posted needs to be treated with the same respect as pretty much every other page when we know it's just drivel to push a character at the expense of the greater narrative. Hell, Dark Knights Metal/Death Metal essentially entered the chat just to confirm to power scalers that DC is tired that everyone doesn't worship their Batgod.

    Most long-time readers are rolling their eyes at that and checking out or just reading it with the same level of engagement they do any popcorn action film: disposable and to be forgotten in a year. But powerscalers are going to be asking who would win, Superboy Prime with a blue sundip (pre-crisis, blue sun radiation supercharged Kryptonians) or The Darkest Knight with infinite prep time until DC folds.

    It's not natural or the genre. It's pedantic fans who are so obsessed with who has the strongest imaginary friend in an arena where both combatants are told who will win or lose the engagement by the entity which has the most to gain financially from said fight. If that's how you get your fun, have at it. Sometimes it can be fun, but very often it's taken way too far while pretending there isn't a commercial reason most these absurd situations happen. It comes across as some juvenile need to back the strongest horse. Who cares? It's goddamn stupid.
    Last edited by Robanker; 08-04-2020 at 01:04 PM.

  7. #22
    Extraordinary Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    I mean if we're being pedantic, yes, he went a couple feet ahead of Clark.
    Well, that's just your opinion. Powerlevel helps in world building aspect. It creates hierarchy and structures which helps in action genre. It's not just pissing contest. Tiers help help classify characters as well. As for harley quinn and batman the likes they are just pis moments and fan service. Fans generally don't like powerstructures being trivialised. Because it removes a storytelling element that helps people understand the world in the story. Doesn't mean people generally don't like a good structure or power structures being built. Either you build one or don't. There are good stories with no power structures in the genre. But, not building one means it wouldn't be just harley quinn that be able to beat superman. Lois, steve,alfred's cat... Etc anyone might be able to with right equipments and stuff. It would be like in the real world. A guy with a gun can cause mass shooting.Pardon me for asking. But,why do you read this stuff anyways . I mean, there are tons of other genres.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 08-05-2020 at 12:51 AM.

  8. #23
    Astonishing Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Well, that's just your opinion. Powerlevel helps in world building aspect. It creates hierarchy and structures which helps in action genre. It's not just pissing contest. Tiers help help classify characters as well. As for harley quinn and batman the likes they are just pis moments and fan service. Fans generally don't like powerstructures being trivialised. Because it removes a storytelling element that helps people understand the world in the story. Doesn't mean people generally don't like a good structure or power structures being built. Either you build one or don't. There are good stories with no power structures in the genre. But, not building one means it wouldn't be just harley quinn that be able to beat superman. Lois, steve,alfred's cat... Etc anyone might be able to with right equipments and stuff. It would be like in the real world. A guy with a gun can cause mass shooting.Pardon me for asking. But,why do you read this stuff anyways . I mean, there are tons of other genres.
    I mean I do read other stuff. Who doesn't?

    I greatly enjoy the characters, the universe, a lot of the thematic elements therein and the over-the-top nature of it all. I quite love the long, storied history of everything at DC and the legacy it sometimes has. It can be mythological at its best. At worst, it's soap opera and even that can be fun. I love the art! I even enjoy collecting them too. I enjoy discussing it with people, of course. I post a lot about things I do enjoy in these books. I don't continue buying books I don't enjoy, such as Death Metal which I dropped after the first issue confirmed all my suspicions it would be trash. But stuff like Aquaman, Hawkman, and the Super books right now? I'm loving them. Justice League Dark is the best a JL book has been since Rebirth. Over at Black Label, The Question and Strange Adventures are stellar. I've got other DC books I'm getting but that's the short list, not counting the great stuff that's concluded like Jimmy Olsen.

    I really don't care for the powerscaling pissing contest because it feels like missing the forest for one very specific tree that DC likes to throw out their waste bucket on. It's the nadir of the experience. Yes, I expect the core conceit of the universe to make sense given the rules they establish. Superman reasonably should beat a lot of his contemporaries, but in a shared universe, he's going to job if he's in someone else's book. That's part and parcel with the genre. I just want it to make sense when he loses. There's a difference between the Batman/Superman fights in DKR and Hush. In the former, Clark gets zero respect and in the latter, he does. Both times, Bruce's plan succeeds and he wins or goes even by any margin. In Hush, both come out of that fight looking good and it highlights Bruce's tactical mind without Clark needing to hold the idiot ball. It's fine. For what it's worth, I don't think anyone refers to stuff like that when talking about power scaling being annoying.

    Throwing a fit because my favorite sidekick one time got to punch above their grade and now I think they always need to be held to that example is another. This is the kind of stuff comic book fans get made fun of over and it's just so very, very tiresome. It's best left on the playground, or the battle boards which is this forum's equivalent. It's right up there with "but the glasses are dumb" or some such. Grant Morrison hit the nail on the head when he said adults can't get over themselves long enough to remember that none of this stuff is real. There's a lot of disbelief one must suspend at the metaphorical door when engaging the genre. How the hell else can Batman bump shoulders with the Justice League and yet completely fail to stop a clown with a chemistry set?

    I don't think you and I are ever really going to see eye-to-eye on this, so I'll conclude with I do hope you find some Superman material you genuinely enjoy since it seems to be in very short supply of late.
    Last edited by Robanker; 08-05-2020 at 04:18 AM.

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