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  1. #61
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    I... don't get it? I mean, the story where Fantomex appeared, there were two pods in the English Channel as in that's where Fantomex and Weapon XII were born after being released by Weapon Plus. The World also wasn't that old, given how the president was later featured talking about Weapon Plus in the Magneto arc. Fantomex being around since the 1940s doesn't make that much sense.

  2. #62
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    ohhh also in giant six x-men the illusions kept saying help me and Storm also did the whole "help me" thing with lightning to Jean and Emma. So i don't really know what connects but there ae a lot of little things that repeat
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  3. #63
    Fantastic Member Technopriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pav View Post
    Really enjoyed this issue, and heck! I sure was shocked to turn the page and see a retelling of Assault on Weapon X! I really love how much attention and respect Hickman gives to the Morrison run.

    The funny thing with Fantomex is how difficult it is to follow what's real in his stories: originally, all his backstory was bullshit, was it not? And yet, it appears -- if this story is to be taken at face value -- that Fantomex has been outside The World for quite a long time.

    I don't buy it, though.

    I saw someone else mention it already: I think the "decades" were in regards to The World, and in the "real" world it may as well have been a single week or something.

    Beyond that, can we even be sure the events shown happened at all? Nothing seemed overly fishy about the Hellfire Club attempt, but the Howling Commandos definitely seemed off, and then there were the... what were they called? Humanaughts? Something weird. And, as far as I know, completely original characters with no history of their own.

    Call me a purist, but as someone who really, really loves Morrison's Here Comes Tomorrow, I can't help but see Fantomex as an incredibly tragic dupe of a character -- someone who wants to be a real boy more than anything and, in the end, isn't. So I look forward to seeing how Hickman handles the character, and how true he sticks to the original interpretation.

    -Pav, who won't be upset if Hickman goes in a different direction however...
    The problem has always been that most writers (and editors) that followed Morrison really didn't understand most of his concepts and ideas, and really just took at face value all the lies that a character whose ability is misdirection told. Yes, all of his backstory that he presented in his introductory issue is bs, he had just woken up into the real world with Weapon XII, he had no real experiences in the real world beyond what happens in the issue. Fantomex was not only misdirecting Xavier and Jean, but also the readers in that issue. The Mansion, the mother, the background, all of it was made up, he was using his power of misdirection (not illusion as later writers screwed that up as well). If Hickman really is a fan of the character as presented by Morrison (and not someone like Remender who really didn't understand him at all), he was probably lying to the readers as well, which I would find interesting, as I am a fan of the character as presented originally by Morrison and not the characters that was presented by later writers.
    Last edited by Technopriest; 08-05-2020 at 08:35 PM.

  4. #64
    Fantastic Member Technopriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drexelhand View Post
    I... don't get it? I mean, the story where Fantomex appeared, there were two pods in the English Channel as in that's where Fantomex and Weapon XII were born after being released by Weapon Plus. The World also wasn't that old, given how the president was later featured talking about Weapon Plus in the Magneto arc. Fantomex being around since the 1940s doesn't make that much sense.
    Later writers completely missed Morrison original story and intention with Fantomex (the same happened with Ernst/Nova). Yes, basically Fanto was "born" into the real world in his introductory issue, and lied about everything else after that. I really hope that Hickman follows Morrison lead with the character and not Remender (yes, I am not a fan and not happy about how much he didn't understood Morrison's character and ideas for him).

  5. #65
    Mighty Member gambitxremy's Avatar
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    I wonder who Fantomex is a clone of?

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technopriest View Post
    The problem has always been that most writers (and editors) that followed Morrison really didn't understand most of his concepts and ideas, and really just took at face value all the lies that a character whose ability is misdirection told. Yes, all of his backstory that he presented in his introductory issue is bs, he had just woken up into the real world with Weapon XII, he had no real experiences in the real world beyond what happens in the issue. Fantomex was not only misdirecting Xavier and Jean, but also the readers in that issue. The Mansion, the mother, the background, all of it was made up, he was using his power of misdirection (not illusion as later writers screwed that up as well). If Hickman really is a fan of the character as presented by Morrison (and not someone like Remender who really didn't understand him at all), he was probably lying to the readers as well, which I would find interesting, as I am a fan of the character as presented originally by Morrison and not the characters that was presented by later writers.
    I actually enjoyed him in Remender's arc.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by gambitxremy View Post
    I wonder who Fantomex is a clone of?
    Would be fun if they had a secret story that Moira in one of her lives had Xavier also create a Shiar Golem husk of himself who is Fantomex has a part of his mental abilities but the rest are technological.Makes a good fit that he is Xavier's clone in this universe

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    I actually enjoyed him in Remender's arc.
    My issue with Remender is that he either didn't understand the concept of the character as laid out by Morrison, or he didn't really care. I liked the concept of a character who not only is misdirection the other characters in the story, but the people who are reading it as well, it is very meta and very Morrison. Remender Fantomex just became pedestrian to me, another bad boy character that lacked what made him interesting in the first place. Remender made the mansion, the mother, and the thieving background real (it was all supposed to be made up) plus he did the whole "3 brains=3 different personalities" which was just dumb (and promptly ignored after Uncanny X-Force ended).

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    Would be fun if they had a secret story that Moira in one of her lives had Xavier also create a Shiar Golem husk of himself who is Fantomex has a part of his mental abilities but the rest are technological.Makes a good fit that he is Xavier's clone in this universe
    There was a theory going around that Fantomex was actually a clone of Xavier, I mean even his real name (or designation) is "Charlie Cluster-7". I don't know how valid that theory is, or if is anything else than fan speculation.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundershot View Post
    The continuity of this is confusing... I need to look again, but no way the Thunderbolts were around a decade before Morrison’s X-Men.
    That's my only gripe about the whole "X-Men history happened in a decade" thing that's integral to Dawn of X. Even if we removed the Thunderbolts, the Champions and the Defenders place some ambiguity with the timing, especially since the OG X-Men that joined those teams did so after graduation -- so already at least a couple years after the start of the team.

    If we say the X-Men as a team have been around for ten years the way Hickman says, then at best the Champions and Defenders formed during maybe Year 2 or 3, but definitely not a decade before the Xorneto era. The Champions and the Defenders do not predate the X-Men.

    If time is a bit more elastic than 10 years, then that gives room for the X-Men to form, graduate, and then join the Champions and Defenders -- in other words, the actual chronological order.

    ---

    But that's the least of my worries. I really don't care about Fantomex and yet to me this is the best GS issue so far. The offbeat pace is classic Morrison but the cameos are classic Hickman, and it all ties in together quite neatly.

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