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  1. #1
    Incredible Member
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    Default Cockrum's return in #145

    It is me or it was totally horrible?

    To me, the combination Claremont + Byrne was the quintessential and best X-Men cycle in history. However, Cockrum did a good job in #94-107, as well as #110.

    I would say that anything in the #94-143 (and maybe even 144?) frame was the "CLASSIC" X-Men and pure perfection.

    When Cockrum returned, well, it was super-awful. Bad stories and bad pencils. I'm sorry about this.

  2. #2
    BANNED misty101's Avatar
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    Go and read some real super awful X-Men comics, then go back and read it.

  3. #3
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    I always thought Cockrum always got a bad deal with inkers. I don't remember specifics and who inked which issues, but I do remember that inking changed hands often while Cockrum was doing the pencils. Definitely leading up to Byrne taking over in 108 there were different inkers almost every issue. Can't remember who each time. I was of the opinion, at the time, that Byrne was very influenced by Cockrum early on, and found his own way from there, some of the work he produced from 111 onwards was amazing. I think I'd really got used to his work on the title, and the return of Cockrum was art from 10 years earlier and in some ways looked it at times. But Cockrum was a fantastic storyteller and I think in the mid seventies he pointed the way for artists like Byrne and Miller, a fabulous, and still under appreciated artist in my opinion.

  4. #4
    Mighty Member psylurker's Avatar
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    I think Cockrum peaked on Superboy & The Legion of Super-Heroes and his first X-Men run. Nothing else after those, including his second X-Men run, was quite as good. I seem to recall there were health issues involved though?

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member From The Shadows's Avatar
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    I have to disagree. I thought those later stories were fine and thought Cockrums art was even better and more detailed. But tha'ts just my opinion.

  6. #6
    Mighty Member ARkadelphia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by From The Shadows View Post
    I have to disagree. I thought those later stories were fine and thought Cockrums art was even better and more detailed. But tha'ts just my opinion.
    Not just your opinion. I agree as well.
    “The Scarlet Witch is the only thing that will scare them. It’s the only thing they’ll respect.” - Hope Summers, Avengers vs X-Men #7

  7. #7
    Fantastic Member Captain Buttocks's Avatar
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    I think it's natural for those stories to appear a bit weaker, merely because after providing Dark Phoenix and DOFP in the space of six-to-nine months (plus Byrne leaving, and his and CC's creative process was...fraught, to say the least) it's only natural to want some breathing space. Plus Byrne quit very suddenly (I think it was after seeing the finished dialogue to the Colossus tree bit in 143) so it's entirely possible Cockrum didn't have the same level of input that he would have had during his earlier run (i.e the scripts were written without necessarily having Cockrum in mind).

    I think they're good enough stories.

  8. #8
    EMMA WAS RIGHT! darkalamator's Avatar
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    I don´t agree... I am not a fan of Cockrum but the X Men owe him a LOT. Besides and after the 145 is the Kitty´s Pirate fairy tale to Illyana and it remains a favourite of mine...
    Primum vivere deindre philosophare

  9. #9
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    Cockurm's art was a bit different, maybe due to the inkers, that's true. But I wouldn'T say horrible
    Storywise the prequel to the Brood Saga which was excellent dragged out too much, that's true...

  10. #10
    Mighty Member Mike's Avatar
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    I think that Bob Wiacek was one of the best inkers for Dave Cockrum's art.
    Issue #162 is one of my favorites.
    872739.jpg

  11. #11
    Mighty Member useridgoeshere's Avatar
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    I kind of agree, although I’d say forgettable more than horrible. I was a kid and John Byrne’s art was my idea of perfection. So, Cockrum was a huge shock and not to my liking at all. I had no idea he worked on the book before. From the faces to the weird bent legs to the costumes, just not my taste. I can appreciate his style more now, but I was definitely happy when Paul Smith came along restoring a clean look to the book. Story-wise, it was tough to follow DPS and DOFP, the two most influential stories of all time. None of them were memorable, but not horrible. The Brood sort of hung around. Oh, and the fairy tale was funny.

  12. #12
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    Chris and John Byrne combination was perfect. Dave Cockrum is not as good as John Byrne but still many times better than some of the recent X-artists.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member From The Shadows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I think that Bob Wiacek was one of the best inkers for Dave Cockrum's art.
    Issue #162 is one of my favorites.
    872739.jpg
    He drew the heck out of that issue. Wolverine was absolutely savage.

    His Legion of Superheroes


  14. #14
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    I think what we're looking at with Cockrum's return is a title in flux. It had just lost its penciller/co-plotter, its regular inker (Terry Austin) and a new editor, Louise Simonson, had just taken over, and they had just wrapped up a huge storyline that had dominated the title since Cockrum's first run. It's not surprising that for about a year the whole gang was trying to figure out what kind of stories they wanted to tell and how they could sustain the title without Byrne and Jean Grey.

    By the time Cockrum ended his second run I think they had mostly figured it out, with a regular inker (Bob Wiacek) and a compelling storyline that didn't just try to rehash the Phoenix Saga (the Brood). The title improved still more when Paul Smith replaced Cockrum, but they were probably lucky to have Cockrum there while they were still figuring it out. With an artist who didn't have his fan following and knowledge of the characters the whole title might have fallen apart.

  15. #15
    Incredible Member franckd's Avatar
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    Dave's second run was not as good as his first one. It was far from being bad, and I really liked it. But not as much as I loved Byrne's run to be honest. I guess his second run suffered because fans were used to Byrne's art. And his art was X-Men's perfection at the time.

    I welcomed Paul Smith's art and style very much. It felt clean and very modern. I was a huge fan and I was really sad to see him go.

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