Is it fair to say current Silver Surfer is as fast as post crisis Wally West?

[The Drunkard Kid]

I'm confused as to the point of this thread since the mechanics of the universe would determine how fast you would need to be to time travel (assuming time traveling through speed is even possible in said universe), so it's not really an standardized measurement. Heck, IIRC, the Powerpuff Girls can time travel by "just" going faster than light, which is something that Surfer or Wally West can do in their sleep.

Like, Surfer built up the speed by circling the planet a few times in an unknown timeframe, but we have no idea how that compared with the fact that he normally travels interstellar/intergalactic distances in relatively short order.

I was expecting this thread to be more about explicit reflex feats, honestly. On that note, has Norrin done anything like his "searching a planet that explicitly hinders his senses in the time it took Dr. Strange to speak a sentence" or "made a swipe at the Infinity Gauntlet while traveling a light year in less time than it takes Captain America to throw a punch" feats anytime relatively recently?

[Superfan90]

Or it didn’t and they just clarified a bit of the mechanics, in the same way that DC speedsters access the Speed Force to time travel, which itself is kind of also a... y’know... other dimension in its own rights, accessible by speed.

But that’s like totally different, right?

I mean how could the two speed-based time travel methods operate slightly differently? It’s almost like they’re two companies with two separate fictional universes that each have separate laws of physics and spacial/chronal mechanics or something.

But that’s crazy talk.

Actually no, speed force just provides a way to go in the time stream. Its not actually timestream.

[Pendaran]

Ermm, what? Even after Pocket Universe Superboy was erased from existence after Mon-El killed Trapper, we see Mon-El and Andromeda trying to break time trapper's barrier showing they could travel in time physically.

Did you actually read Legion 37? If so, do you understand that in Legion 37, we are still talking about the Pre Crisis Legion? There was a scan posted for you.

Sure, but that can be explained as going in from the dimensional barrier as well. Another version of Surfer and Dawn actually appeared and talked to Dawn.

Because they were also in the timestream along its currents from another way. You are now looking at scans and ignoring their content. Again.

[Pendaran]

edit: ech, double post.

[Superfan90]

I'm confused as to the point of this thread since the mechanics of the universe would determine how fast you would need to be to time travel (assuming time traveling through speed is even possible in said universe), so it's not really an standardized measurement. Heck, IIRC, the Powerpuff Girls can time travel by "just" going faster than light, which is something that Surfer or Wally West can do in their sleep.

Like, Surfer built up the speed by circling the planet a few times in an unknown timeframe, but we have no idea how that compared with the fact that he normally travels interstellar/intergalactic distances in relatively short order.

I was expecting this thread to be more about explicit reflex feats, honestly. On that note, has Norrin done anything like his "searching a planet that explicitly hinders his senses in the time it took Dr. Strange to speak a sentence" or "made a swipe at the Infinity Gauntlet while traveling a light year in less time than it takes Captain America to throw a punch" feats anytime relatively recently?

Not that I know of. In fact creatures moving at superspeed where they created monuments were invisible to Surfer's senses.

[Superfan90]

Did you actually read Legion 37? If so, do you understand that in Legion 37, we are still talking about the Pre Crisis Legion? There was a scan posted for you.

This is after Legion 37. This is from zero hour where Superboy never existed.

Because they were also in the timestream along its currents from another way. You are now looking at scans and ignoring their content. Again.

How? The future was destroyed, there was no way they could've traveled from Surfer's future.

[Pendaran]

This is after Legion 37. This is from zero hour where Superboy never existed.

Then your current arguement is based on that you can ignore massive timeline changing events, including ones in the Legion's own series to say every version of the legion is interchangeable because "The great darkness saga was referenced."

In fact, while I'm there, Eclipso the Darkness saga, was that the pre crisis Mon El, or the one that became Valor for a while?

[Superfan90]

After all this I'm just curious, is there any actual reflex feat from Surfer besides flying on his board that is Wally level?

[Pendaran]

This is after Legion 37. This is from zero hour where Superboy never existed.

How? The future was destroyed, there was no way they could've traveled from Surfer's future.

They were travelling back from a future after reality had been restored, I don't see the problem.

[Superfan90]

Then your current arguement is based on that you can ignore massive timeline changing events, including ones in the Legion's own series to say every version of the legion is interchangeable because "The great darkness saga was referenced."

In fact, while I'm there, Eclipso the Darkness saga, was that the pre crisis Mon El, or the one that became Valor for a while?

No, I'm saying that even in Glorithverse (after the erasure of Superboy from history), there's reference to Mon El, Andromeda and Ultra Boy traveling through time to break the Iron Curtain of Time.

Both actually. Before Mon-El killed Trapper, present day Lar Gand was supposed to become Mon El. Then he became Valor after Trapper was killed and Glorith became Time Trapper.

[Superfan90]

They were travelling back from a future after reality had been restored, I don't see the problem.

That's the problem, at that point there was no future at all.

[Pendaran]

No, I'm saying that even in Glorithverse (after the erasure of Superboy from history), there's reference to Mon El, Andromeda and Ultra Boy traveling through time to break the Iron Curtain of Time.

Both actually. Before Mon-El killed Trapper, present day Lar Gand was supposed to become Mon El. Then he became Valor after Trapper was killed and Glorith became Time Trapper.

So, you're acknowledging both massive timeline changes, that entirely separate realities were created such that you can name them, but you feel that you can say the characters are all interchangeable anyway?

[Pendaran]

That's the problem, at that point there was no future at all.

And in the time the Surfer came back from, there was a future again. The futureless reality was his past.

[Superfan90]

So, you're acknowledging both massive timeline changes, that entirely separate realities were created such that you can name them, but you feel that you can say the characters are all interchangeable anyway?

No. I'm referring Glorithverse Valor traveling through time physically.

[Superfan90]

And in the time the Surfer came back from, there was a future again. The futureless reality was his past.

OK, this is a headache. Anyways, I'm asking if there is any reflex feat of Surfer outside flying on his board that can say that Surfer is Wally level reflex wise?

Do you think Surfer can run fast like Wally? Otherwise there are a lot of characters who can fly really fast in comics.