Female action movies from a Males's perspective only

[Username taken]

[I did watch the first Twilight movie via Riff Trax with some friends. that was a fun experience]

to be fair: there was no shortage of women who hated Twilight as well.

I have read numerous critics of the Twilight series complain that Bella Swan is less of a character and more of a cipher. she's so ill-defined that the readers can simply transform her into an avatar of their own desires, fantasies, and wishes. some have even mockingly referred to Bella Swan as a piece of clothing that readers could put on and wear.

I mean, if you put it that way... Twilight succeeded for some of the very same reasons that Golden Age Superman comics succeeded. it allows readers to live out fantasies vicariously through the main character.

it's happened before. it will most certainly happen again.

Re-assessing Twilight, I think that series was somewhat unfairly bashed by folks back then. The movies were dull as dishwater but they clearly had a massive audience that loved it.

Lindsay Ellis did a pretty brilliant essay on the topic on YouTube and how YA and female driven fiction gets utterly trashed to the point that people that actually secretly love them are afraid to do so in public. Whereas stuff like The Fast and Furious series and some crappy superhero movies get somewhat less derision because they’re directed at young men.

It seems the public generally pours scorn more easily at fiction directed towards females. It’s actually an interesting topic when critically assessed.

[Scott Taylor]

I thought the movies for Twilight suffered by casting. Especially for Bella. Not defending them, as they still were a big train wreck for the most part, but they could have been a lot more watchable.

[titanfan]

Lindsay Ellis did a pretty brilliant essay on the topic on YouTube and how YA and female driven fiction gets utterly trashed to the point that people that actually secretly love them are afraid to do so in public. Whereas stuff like The Fast and Furious series and some crappy superhero movies get somewhat less derision because they’re directed at young men.

It seems the public generally pours scorn more easily at fiction directed towards females. It’s actually an interesting topic when critically assessed.

There's definitely a "I'm not a watching a chick flick!" attitude from the guys, and a lot of offense towards movies that are only made for women.

(In defense of Fast and Furious, as they've gained popularity, they've strengthened the storylines for the women's characters and such)

[jblogo]

Why do female driven action movies fail? From a Man's POV. What is it about female driven action, superhero or science fiction films that makes you less interested. I have some ideas that could be wrong

Men don't find women believable as action stars
Men fear the movie will be too much of a chick flick
Fear of romantic male leads
Unconscious sexism that the female gender is weaker or bitchier
Men cannot relate to female character development or women issues
The female character is never attractive enough to hold interest.


These are just some of my reasons I believe men are lukewarm to female driven movies.

Female-led action films fail for the same reason male-led action files fail. There are many different reasons, such as poor writing, poor production, a low budget, or an unfamiliarity with the source material by the general public.

It is true that there are males who have a bias against female-led action films, anecdotally probably 2 or 3 in every 10 males. But the majority of males, ESPECIALLY late Gen X/Xennial and younger, have no issues with female-led action films. And, to the contrary, they grew up with female heroes: Bionic Woman, Wonder Woman, Cagney and Lacy, Scarlet, Lady Jay, She-Ra, Sailor Moon, Captain Janeway, Mulan, Powerpuff Girls, Merida, Star Vs. The Forces of Evil, Huntress, Black Canary, Birds of Prey (the 2000s series), Katniss Everdeen, Beatrice Prior. As a result, males of the last 2 or 3 generations accept female-led action films much more readily than their predecessors.

HOWEVER, as we have seen with Harvey Weinstein and Ike Perlmutter, much of Hollywood still is under the control of older males who have a more antiquated view of male and female roles. As a result, some (not all) of the female-led action movies being made are (a) poorly advertised, (b) under-funded, or (c) not true to source material. Those issues ARE NOT the fault of male consumers; it is the fault of those generating and marketing the content. However, male consumers (AND female consumers) may decide to spend their money elsewhere due to a, b, or c, or some combination of them. This creates a situation where female-led action movies fail.

Adding to this: because there are not many movies as compared to male-led action movies they appear to fail at an inordinately high rate. There are less female-led action movies, so when one fails it stands out more. The same is true of superhero movies with POC leads. Less are made, so any failure stands out.

There are some movies that are "flops" because they simply are not that good (Supergirl, for example, was terrible; and I PAID to see that with my allowance as a kid). Some have unfamiliar material, such as "Mortal Engines" and "Tomorrowland", both of which were entertaining movies, but were competing with very familiar tentpole franchise movies coming out the same month. Others fail out due to a poor franchise entry ("Allegiant", for example).

As for the six suppositions in the original post: those are unfortunate stereotypes. My wife can attest to the fact that I watch substantially more female-led shows than she does, and none of my choices have anything to do with sexuality or how attractive the woman is. I watch "Star Trek: Discovery" because I like Star Trek. I watch a panoply of K-Dramas because I enjoy how the stories are told, and I like romantic comedies. I saw "Lucy" (a box office success) because I like science fiction. So the six suppositions are stereotypes of male behavior and thinking.

[Agent Z]

Re-assessing Twilight, I think that series was somewhat unfairly bashed by folks back then. The movies were dull as dishwater but they clearly had a massive audience that loved it.

Lindsay Ellis did a pretty brilliant essay on the topic on YouTube and how YA and female driven fiction gets utterly trashed to the point that people that actually secretly love them are afraid to do so in public. Whereas stuff like The Fast and Furious series and some crappy superhero movies get somewhat less derision because they’re directed at young men.

It seems the public generally pours scorn more easily at fiction directed towards females. It’s actually an interesting topic when critically assessed.

Twilight got scorn for being aimed at teenage girls but that generally obscured the racism and abuse glorification featured in the books and the films. There was plenty reason to bash it just not the ones certain people picked.

[lowfyr]

My thoughts exactly.

Beauty and the Beast is a fantasy and Twilight is a supernatural romance. None of these are action movies.

But if we are going down this route, we can bring in Fifty Shades of Grey. Ooohhh daddy..l

I would prefer if we don't do that^^

[Castle]

A one time thing? Hunger Games would like to have a word with you.

Twilight succeeded because it was a best selling young adult book series...and definitely not an action movie.

Hunger Games success was built from Twilight. Without Twilight, there would be no Hunger Games.

[lowfyr]

Harry Potter had more to do with that. Billions of Dollars made with adapting a book for kids or teens results as usual in others doing that with anything, that is in the same corner.

[Gotham citizen]

I think we can say everything started with the success of Jackson's Lord of the Rings (and Buffy): thank to them the moviemakers saw there was a market for the fantasy stories.

[Frobisher]

Who is starting the "Why do black movies fail from a white man's perspective" thread then? ;-)

[Gotham citizen]

It is only matter of time.

[Username taken]

There's definitely a "I'm not a watching a chick flick!" attitude from the guys, and a lot of offense towards movies that are only made for women.

(In defense of Fast and Furious, as they've gained popularity, they've strengthened the storylines for the women's characters and such)

Exactly.

Lots of stuff that's directed towards women, particularly young women is sometimes unfairly derided. That's not to say that all the stuff is good because most YA movies jsut haven't been very good IMHO.

This even extends to female led superhero movies. People tend to lump Catwoman and Elektra together as some of the worst superhero movies ever made. But IMO, Elektra isn't really much worse than the Daredevil or Ghost Rider 2 movies which were utter nonsense.

[Username taken]

Twilight got scorn for being aimed at teenage girls but that generally obscured the racism and abuse glorification featured in the books and the films. There was plenty reason to bash it just not the ones certain people picked.

True.

Your post just brought back the memories of the racial nonsense in the story.

[Midvillian1322]

Who is starting the "Why do black movies fail from a white man's perspective" thread then? ;-)

Lol Given the argument made about Black Panther, I think a thread titled " Why black movies get awards not on merit but because of diversity, from a white man's perspective " is more likely.

This thread has changed the angle and moved the goal post about 20 times. I mean most recently Twilight was called a one time thing and then Hunger games is brought up. The explanation being Twilight lead the way... which would clearly mean it wasn't a one time thing. Im not even sure what the argument is anymore. It was about Masculine women not being appealing to male audience(shown not to be true), and then somehow shifted to twilight and beauty and the beast in the last couple pages.

[ed2962]

I know a couple of people have mentioned Old Guard but it's worth breaking down...

The lead is a middle-aged woman with a short haircut.

Both her and the other female lead dress quite modestly, or least their sexiness is not played up.

The star leads a squad of warrior men ( traditionally a masculine role).

The love story is between two men.

The lead character is portrayed as having a very cynical attitude for much of the movie.

You could imagine going by the OP's rules this would have been a flop, but it is the biggest movie on Netflix right now ( and it's directed by a woman).