Female action movies from a Males's perspective only

[ed2962]

I don't think any character "should" be written any particular way - it's case by case. But this thought just came to my head, specifically as it applies to action hero lines:
Men in action movies tend to spout hero lines that show a certain callousness to killing. That makes them "cool" somehow - to be flippant in the face of death, whether they're the ones in peril or if they've just killed someone. (or just about to, i.e. "Go ahead, make my day" or "hasta la vista, baby")

Perhaps the most memorable line by a female action hero is "Get away from her, you *bitch!*" Ripley is protecting someone - she has regard for life and is the ultimate momma bear.

I'm going to guess that "written like a man" reflects how some people see a man's role in the world vs, a woman's role and that if she's written to embody traditional male attitudes like the aforementioned callousness towards death, or being cocky and overconfident, then she's "written like a man."

This isn't about men's roles or women's roles in society. Or about women being confident or cocky in the fame of death in a movie. Or even using snarky one-liners in action flix. I'm talking about what I think was in some places a "toughness" turned up a to an almost parody of "toxic masculinity".

What I think is interesting is that most of the other female led action movies we've mentioned avoid this. including the one's ironically enough that were originally written for male actors.

[Gotham citizen]

[…]
I'm talking about what I think was in some places a "toughness" turned up a to an almost parody of "toxic masculinity".
[…]

In short you are talking about a female character who talk and act like the ones played by Sylvester Stallone and Wesley Snipes in Demolition Man or am I wrong?

[ed2962]

In short you are talking about a female character who talk and act like the ones played by Sylvester Stallone and Wesley Snipes in Demolition Man or am I wrong?

Eh, not per se. A lot of that movie was satire and Wesley played his character for laffs and Sly's character actually had some depth to him.

I mean more when you're trying too hard to be serious and fail. I guess what I'm getting at is it's one thing to tell an actress, "Ok you're a lady cop, you're just as tough as Eastwood" and "You're a lady cop, I need you to do an Eastwood imitation." And even that is less of an issue if you give her clever Eastwood type dialogue. But when you give her hack lines, it calls attention to the fact that you've written a trope from a worse movie than the one you're actually making.

Look, I don't want people to think I hated the movie or that I think women shouldn't do certain things in action films. I was just pointing ut what i thought was a flaw in Long Kiss Goodnight.

Heck, I'm more than willing to talk about even cheesier female led action movies that I liked just as much if not more. Anything from Ultraviolet toFaster Pussycat Kill Kill to Lady Snowblood...

[Scott Taylor]

I quite literally groaned and facepalmed in the theater when it happened. It didn't help that they decided to kill off the only female Avenger earlier in the movie. I thought that split second was pretty lame, especially in the moment. Captain Marvel needs some serious stopping power, but rather than get Iron Man, Thor and Hulk, she gets Wasp, old Wasp and Mantis? I'm not knocking the characters themselves, but they're hardly who you want to have by your side when you go up against Thanos.

Oh, I understand! Agree with everything you say here.

[Gotham citizen]

Eh, not per se. A lot of that movie was satire and Wesley played his character for laffs and Sly's character actually had some depth to him.

I mean more when you're trying too hard to be serious and fail. I guess what I'm getting at is it's one thing to tell an actress, "Ok you're a lady cop, you're just as tough as Eastwood" and "You're a lady cop, I need you to do an Eastwood imitation." And even that is less of an issue if you give her clever Eastwood type dialogue. But when you give her hack lines, it calls attention to the fact that you've written a trope from a worse movie than the one you're actually making.
[…]

It is exactly what I have meant with my example: think to the movie The Enforcer of the Dirty Harry series and imagine if Tyne Daly would played the character of Kate Moore like Stallone did with Spartan. Obviously you can choose another example if you think Spartan isn't the right one: I don't like the action movie, so I am not able to find out a better example.

[…]
Look, I don't want people to think I hated the movie or that I think women shouldn't do certain things in action films. I was just pointing ut what i thought was a flaw in Long Kiss Goodnight.

Heck, I'm more than willing to talk about even cheesier female led action movies that I liked just as much if not more. Anything from Ultraviolet toFaster Pussycat Kill Kill to Lady Snowblood...

The world is full of people who think to have the right to decide what you think and what you say, with them there is only a good thing to do: follow the piece of advice that Virgilio give to Dante in the Divine Comedy: «Don't bother about them, but look and pass by»; in my opinion you have express your idea very well.

[j9ac9k]

This isn't about men's roles or women's roles in society. Or about women being confident or cocky in the fame of death in a movie. Or even using snarky one-liners in action flix. I'm talking about what I think was in some places a "toughness" turned up a to an almost parody of "toxic masculinity".

What I think is interesting is that most of the other female led action movies we've mentioned avoid this. including the one's ironically enough that were originally written for male actors.

Of course it is. Deep down, those things factor into the conversation. Culture is the barometer of we're talking about and what "written like a man" is or is not - it's about our notions of what it means to be a man or a woman that has nothing to do with what's between their legs. Sorry if I departed a bit from where you were going with it, but I was interjecting my own thoughts as part of the overall conversation since this is an open forum.

[ed2962]

It is exactly what I have meant with my example: think to the movie The Enforcer of the Dirty Harry series and imagine if Tyne Daly would played the character of Kate Moore like Stallone did with Spartan. Obviously you can choose another example if you think Spartan isn't the right one: I don't like the action movie, so I am not able to find out a better example.



The world is full of people who think to have the right to decide what you think and what you say, with them there is only a good thing to do: follow the piece of advice that Virgilio give to Dante in the Divine Comedy: «Don't bother about them, but look and pass by»; in my opinion you have express your idea very well.

Thanks, I appreciate it

[ed2962]

Of course it is. Deep down, those things factor into the conversation. Culture is the barometer of we're talking about and what "written like a man" is or is not - it's about our notions of what it means to be a man or a woman that has nothing to do with what's between their legs. Sorry if I departed a bit from where you were going with it, but I was interjecting my own thoughts as part of the overall conversation since this is an open forum.

It's fine. At some point, we probably are talking about what we perceive of believable portrayals of what's "masculine" and "feminine". I don't think there's hard fast rules, but I do think there's some writing out there that's more convincing than others.

[Castle]

It's fine. At some point, we probably are talking about what we perceive of believable portrayals of what's "masculine" and "feminine". I don't think there's hard fast rules, but I do think there's some writing out there that's more convincing than others.

There used to be hard fast rules of believable portrayals of "masculine" and "feminine''. Its one of the factors that turns men off with female action movies. They don't like masculine females.
Charlies Angel's 2000 goes hard on the feminine portrayal of women. All three angels had feminine sexiness. The Charlie's Angel reboot, I think Kristen Stewart is a masculine character.

[Gotham citizen]

Actually I have more than some issue to see her like a stereotypical feminine character:

[ed2962]

There used to be hard fast rules of believable portrayals of "masculine" and "feminine''. Its one of the factors that turns men off with female action movies. They don't like masculine females.
Charlies Angel's 2000 goes hard on the feminine portrayal of women. All three angels had feminine sexiness. The Charlie's Angel reboot, I think Kristen Stewart is a masculine character.

I haven't seen the new Charlie's Angels although now I'm a little tempted. The criticisms I remember though was from people who hadn't seen it fake complaining about how it's gone "woke".

[Gaelforce]

There used to be hard fast rules of believable portrayals of "masculine" and "feminine''. Its one of the factors that turns men off with female action movies. They don't like masculine females.
Charlies Angel's 2000 goes hard on the feminine portrayal of women. All three angels had feminine sexiness. The Charlie's Angel reboot, I think Kristen Stewart is a masculine character.

That is a very broad and very inaccurate generalization.

*You* might not like women taking on traditionally male roles, but there are plenty of guys who do.

Also, 'traditional' is not an excuse to continue a particular way of thinking. It is often used as justification for people to continue to put forth sexist/racist/ageist ideas that are outdated. The world evolves, and tradition can be used to try to stop or ignore that evolution. It was traditional, for example, for women not to have credit cards because the man handled all the money.

That changed in the 70s, but it took that long because of 'traditional' male-led households. People realized how ridiculous it was and changed with the times.

Likewise, nurses and teachers and secretaries/assistants were once 'female only' roles, but then that barrier got broken down as well.

'Old-fashioned' and 'outdated' gender roles are constantly growing and changing, and that applies to films and television. We only now just got the first black woman anchoring a prime time news show as of last week when 'traditionally' desk anchors were a male-only field. Barriers are still being broken and the walls delineating what is 'male' and 'female' in media are changing with it.

From my decades of experience, the majority of men that I know just want a well-made, well-written and well-acted movie experience, gender be damned.

[Gaelforce]

I haven't seen the new Charlie's Angels although now I'm a little tempted. The criticisms I remember though was from people who hadn't seen it fake complaining about how it's gone "woke".

I hadn't heard any of the scuttlebutt before we went to see it, and we enjoyed it. Nothing struck me as being 'woke' or 'in your face'.

[Steel Inquisitor]

I hadn't heard any of the scuttlebutt before we went to see it, and we enjoyed it. Nothing struck me as being 'woke' or 'in your face'.

It had a black woman in the cast and she was fantastic, that was probably enough. Despite the fact the tv show and previous movies were pro-feminist, though McG's movies also had issues with sexual politics.

[Frontier]

Charlies Angel's 2000 goes hard on the feminine portrayal of women. All three angels had feminine sexiness. The Charlie's Angel reboot, I think Kristen Stewart is a masculine character.

Well, she had short hair and seems like the aggressive type but she seemed to have a feminine sexuality to me from the trailer's I watched.