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  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    What? No! I was agreeing that the Men of Letters arc was a waste of a season. And the only thing to come out of it was the one guy that already tried to kill Sam and Dean a few times to end up on their side. In 1 one off episodes per season.
    My apologies. And I think you're talking about Mr. Ketch? He was cool, but also one of many Crowley "surrogates" to sort of fill the void left by Mark Sheppard. Ketch was perhaps the best attempt.

  2. #17
    A Sinful Delight Synestra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valentis View Post
    No Dawn is the key story line in Buffy. It's the worst Buffy story arc of all time.

    The story was nonsense when we realise Buffy herself could all along function as a key and close the portal. There was no need for Dawn.
    Buffy couldn't function as the Key as she couldn't open the portal. She could only close it due to her blood connection to Dawn. Besides the character of Dawn, season 5 is actually one of the strongest in the show, with The Body, Glory, and the fact that all the episodes actually come together at the final battle.

    In my original post, I was actually going to name both Dawn and Connor from Buffy as I hated both their characters. But I realize that they were integral to the plot of their seasons, and really can't be removed. So I went with the season 7 scene instead.

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member Starter Set's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totoro Man View Post
    Xander dumping Anya on their wedding day
    I hated that one so much.

  4. #19
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    Well a lot of the crap that Connor got up to was not originally supposed to happen to him, there was not supposed to be anything romantic between Connor and Cordelia until Charisma Carpenter got pregnant and would be to far along to do the physical fights and all of that when filming was done so they had to rewrite that season, Dawn was fun because she was a big and sudden shift and the fact that she wasn't aware of the truth as so was not one of the bad guys but pretty much an innocent in it all...

  5. #20
    Spectacular Member Valentis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synestra View Post
    Buffy couldn't function as the Key as she couldn't open the portal. She could only close it due to her blood connection to Dawn. Besides the character of Dawn, season 5 is actually one of the strongest in the show, with The Body, Glory, and the fact that all the episodes actually come together at the final battle.

    In my original post, I was actually going to name both Dawn and Connor from Buffy as I hated both their characters. But I realize that they were integral to the plot of their seasons, and really can't be removed. So I went with the season 7 scene instead.
    The story said only the key could open and close the portal. Dawn and Buffy may have the same blood but only Dawn's blood held the key not Buffy's blood. Look at it another way, Buffy and Dawn share the same blood but only Buffy's blood has slayer healing powers.

    Dawn would and should never be able to cure Angel after Faith poisoned him. She is not a slayer as Buffy is not the key. In the end Glory never needed Dawn. She could have used Buffy, Joyce or Hank Summers to open and close the portal. The story was poorly thought out. The only saving aspect of the story was Glory ranking among the greatest big bads on TV.

  6. #21
    Astonishing Member Kusanagi's Avatar
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    Barring a few episodes (the musical!), Buffy season 6 on was a struggle. I'll give my top prize to Xander/Anya breaking up which just seemed depressing just to be depressing with no other impact on the story.

    For Angel, basically everything done with Cordelia (especially the stuff with Connor) in the later seasons was just bad.
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  7. #22
    Mighty Member TriggerWarning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kusanagi View Post
    Barring a few episodes (the musical!), Buffy season 6 on was a struggle. I'll give my top prize to Xander/Anya breaking up which just seemed depressing just to be depressing with no other impact on the story.

    For Angel, basically everything done with Cordelia (especially the stuff with Connor) in the later seasons was just bad.
    I'm willing to die on the hill that season 6 of Buffy was by far the best season of the show and its not even close. The musical episode and mental hospital episodes are two of the best episodes the show did. Loved Dark Willow storyline and the fact that it was Xander who saved the world by being a compassionate friend rather than having Buffy slay something. Even loved the Spike / Buffy storyline. Buffy was in mental hell and punishing herself so her throwing herself at Spike fit with where she was in her life at the time. Likewise Spike trying to rape her at the end fit because he was a demon with no soul no matter how much they tried to make him be a good guy.

  8. #23
    Astonishing Member AndrewCrossett's Avatar
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    I wouldn't say the season 6 Buffy/Spike storyline was *bad* storytelling, just unpleasant to watch. Spike had to realize that without a soul he could never love Buffy, only *want* her. And that led to him going and getting his soul back, which IMO was one of the best twists the show ever did.

    Still, I wish they'd gone about it a bit differently.
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  9. #24
    Extraordinary Member Derek Metaltron's Avatar
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    Doctor Who. Orphan 55.

    ...nuff said.

  10. #25
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Pretty much everything Spike related in Buffy once you get past season 4 (there is no justifiable reason for them to spare him after he helps Adam; him even going to them for help with the chip and them not staking him right then and there is also OOC for all parties involved) is bad aside from Fool For Love. Even as a Spike hater, that episode was very well done. Beyond that, he drags down the show with each subsequent season and has some of the most transparent plot/fanservice armor I think I've ever seen in a show.

    Also the First Evil sucks as a villain.

    For Angel, I hated Angel and Cordelia's romance and what was done to Cordelia in season 4. Boreanaz and Carpenter had great sibling-like friendship chemistry, but no romantic chemistry to speak of. Connor was also godawful.


    Really the Buffy 6/7 and Angel 3/4 period is the low point of the Buffyverse. Angel season 5 was great but would have been even better with Cordelia and Lilah as regulars if they hadn't been fridged.

  11. #26
    A Sinful Delight Synestra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valentis View Post
    The story said only the key could open and close the portal. Dawn and Buffy may have the same blood but only Dawn's blood held the key not Buffy's blood. Look at it another way, Buffy and Dawn share the same blood but only Buffy's blood has slayer healing powers.

    Dawn would and should never be able to cure Angel after Faith poisoned him. She is not a slayer as Buffy is not the key. In the end Glory never needed Dawn. She could have used Buffy, Joyce or Hank Summers to open and close the portal. The story was poorly thought out. The only saving aspect of the story was Glory ranking among the greatest big bads on TV.
    The specific quote was "the gate will close when the blood flows no more." Buffy figures out that her blood will work to close the portal because the monks made Dawn out of her, with the same blood. But nothing shows that Buffy shares any of the mystic energies needed to actually open the portal that Dawn was created from. This is pretty explicit because of the mentally ill people only being able to identify Dawn as the Key, not Buffy or Joyce.

    And using Buffy to open the portal wouldn't have made sense from a narrative point either, because if Glory had captured Buffy, no one else would've been able to defeat Glory.

    Additionally, the overall writing of Season 5 was clever in its payoff at the end by using Chekhov's Gun, even with the monster of the week and breather episodes. The Dagon Sphere, the troll god hammer, the Buffybot, and Willow's tapping into dark magic all come back into play in the final battle. And as mentioned, The Body is one of the most acclaimed episodes of the show.
    Quote Originally Posted by TriggerWarning View Post
    I'm willing to die on the hill that season 6 of Buffy was by far the best season of the show and its not even close. The musical episode and mental hospital episodes are two of the best episodes the show did. Loved Dark Willow storyline and the fact that it was Xander who saved the world by being a compassionate friend rather than having Buffy slay something. Even loved the Spike / Buffy storyline. Buffy was in mental hell and punishing herself so her throwing herself at Spike fit with where she was in her life at the time. Likewise Spike trying to rape her at the end fit because he was a demon with no soul no matter how much they tried to make him be a good guy.
    Generally speaking I agree with this. I can understand why some fans felt like Season 6 was too dark, and I hated the Trio as villains too, but I overall love the season. The musical and the mental hospital episodes are also personal favorites of mine, and I loved the Dark Willow storyline too. And I always found Tabula Rasa to be one of their most humorous episodes.
    Last edited by Synestra; 08-04-2020 at 03:42 PM.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riv86672 View Post
    The Joey/Rachel get together thing on FRIENDS. even the actors didn’t like it. The characters had gotten way too family oriented by that point.
    And I also feel the same way about the Chandler/Monica relationship. I know most fans loved it but my favorite part of the show was the Joey/Chandler friendship. It was hilarious, touching, and fun. But once Chandica came along, the whole dynamic changed - and not for the better. Monica became unlikeable and Chandler became unfunny. Ross and Rachel were the only on-again, off-again relationship the show needed IMO.

  13. #28
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Its not that I couldn't do without it, as it was a major key piece, but there were too many "flash-sideways" in Lost season 6. Considering what the revelation was of what they actually were, I think they should've cut down the number of them, and instead use that time to do more island history flashbacks. That would have created a better balance to the mystery of the alternate world, and getting some more explanations to island stuff revealed.

    Cordy/Connor in Angel season 4. Pretty much all that needs to be said.
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  14. #29
    Astonishing Member Starter Set's Avatar
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    Just for Normal Again the season 6 of Buffy was worth making for me. That's one of the very few example of a "it's all a dream" type of story that i find fantastic.

    And of course the end of the episode plays with you, as it totally should do, by making you wonder if indeed it's all in her head or not.

    The gift would have been a beautiful way to end the show though.

    But back on topic, come one, we have to mention Wesley Crusher here. The ultimate being of all boring and pointless storylines.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyke View Post
    Inspired by this Buzzfeed list, but what are some pointless stories on your most beloved shows?

    One that sprang to mind was pretty much any Kim Bauer story from season 2-on in 24. It made sense for her to be part of the main story in the first season since that was an intro to Jack and the day's events took its toll on his family, but every Kim adventure after that seemed really contrived (in *this* show, that's saying something) and obviously as a way to keep Elisha Cuthbert in a starring role (no offense to the actress, of course).

    Another is the forced Chakotay/Seven romance in the last few episodes of Voyager. It doesn't have to work to be a decent story, but it does have to build up and feel organic, even if they're going to break up in the end. As it is, it's just a bit of lip service once or twice before becoming a full blown plot point in an already stuffed finale.
    Oliver becoming Malcolm Merlyn's b-ch in Arrow Season 3. That was the beginning of Oliver's downfall and served only to make Oliver act like a complete idiot all season when all he had to do was kill Malcolm and send his head to the League. Could've avoided an entire season of stupidity.
    Worse still, halfway through the season, the League came and got Malcolm, resolving the problem on their own, and Oliver's immediate response was to run off and save him.

    On Batwoman, the Alice plotline should've been over way sooner than it was. Kate constantly letting her go did not make her look good.
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