Page 10 of 12 FirstFirst ... 6789101112 LastLast
Results 136 to 150 of 174
  1. #136
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    8,256

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    Closer to the 2003 cartoon take as a tragic villain?.
    I think the way that the Judas Contract movie did it would be best. It doesn't remove any of the seriousness of Terra during her villainous streak but it allows her to be sympathetic and realize that she was being used and that she didn't have to be evil, that the Titans really did love her.

    Put her on a redemptive path and throw her in something like the Outsiders, Outlaws, or Suicide Squad and you have a really interesting anti-hero.
    "We come into this world alone and we leave the same way. The time we spent in between - time spent alive, sharing, learning together... is all that makes life worth living." - Jean Grey

  2. #137
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    15,234

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    Closer to the 2003 cartoon take as a tragic villain?.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    I think the way that the Judas Contract movie did it would be best. It doesn't remove any of the seriousness of Terra during her villainous streak but it allows her to be sympathetic and realize that she was being used and that she didn't have to be evil, that the Titans really did love her.

    Put her on a redemptive path and throw her in something like the Outsiders, Outlaws, or Suicide Squad and you have a really interesting anti-hero.
    Cartoon Terra is overall preferable for me, but I think what Priest did was fine.

    Terra might actually be better as having a finite narrative once Judas Contract wraps up. The last episode of the cartoon actually had the best wrap up for her character that totally blows all the Terra 2 and other stuff out of the water.

  3. #138
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    8,256

    Default

    I don't think a finite narrative is something that's realistic in comics, especially not with a popular property like Terra that has largely been untapped outside of one storyline.
    "We come into this world alone and we leave the same way. The time we spent in between - time spent alive, sharing, learning together... is all that makes life worth living." - Jean Grey

  4. #139
    Ultimate Member Holt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    10,054

    Default

    Priest did the most interesting stuff with Terra, IMO. She's all kinds of nasty but they ditched the "She was more evil than Slade and what happened wasn't his fault" handwringing bullshit Wolfman tried to pull.

  5. #140
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    12,302

    Default

    Well, Terra was designed to be a manipulative sociopath that would use sex to get her way.
    That may be hard to accept, but that was her in a nutshell.

    She used Slade.
    But, he was using her, too. And obviously not turning away from her advances.
    They were both evil.

    I believe the only reason DC wanted to redeem Deathstroke, at least enough to be sympathetic but still tainted, was because of Marvel's success with Punisher, mixed with the popularity of the Titans at the time.
    They wanted their own Punisher and Vigilante had ended, leaving room for a Deathstroke title.

    Of course, I don't care for Magneto or Emma Frost as members of the X-Men either.
    Especially Magneto.
    "There's magic in the sound of analog audio." - CNET.

  6. #141
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    34,009

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Stone View Post
    Well, Terra was designed to be a manipulative sociopath that would use sex to get her way.
    That may be hard to accept, but that was her in a nutshell.

    She used Slade.
    But, he was using her, too. And obviously not turning away from her advances.
    They were both evil.

    I believe the only reason DC wanted to redeem Deathstroke, at least enough to be sympathetic but still tainted, was because of Marvel's success with Punisher, mixed with the popularity of the Titans at the time.
    They wanted their own Punisher and Vigilante had ended, leaving room for a Deathstroke title.

    Of course, I don't care for Magneto or Emma Frost as members of the X-Men either.
    Especially Magneto.
    There is no scenario where a teenage girl is "using" an old man for sex.

  7. #142
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Brooklyn, New York
    Posts
    3,731

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    There is no scenario where a teenage girl is "using" an old man for sex.
    Agree 1000%. The whole 'She was using him' argument is just another crutch to justify sketchy decisions made by Wolfman or DC, whichever party decided to justify Deathstroke and pretend he did nothing wrong.

  8. #143
    Boisterously Confused
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    9,453

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    I don't think a finite narrative is something that's realistic in comics, especially not with a popular property like Terra that has largely been untapped outside of one storyline.
    That's absolutely true today, less so back then. The afterlife's revolving door in comics wasn't quite so well oiled at the time W&P created Terra.

  9. #144
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    5,193

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Stone View Post
    Well, Terra was designed to be a manipulative sociopath that would use sex to get her way.
    That may be hard to accept, but that was her in a nutshell.

    She used Slade.
    But, he was using her, too. And obviously not turning away from her advances.
    They were both evil.

    I believe the only reason DC wanted to redeem Deathstroke, at least enough to be sympathetic but still tainted, was because of Marvel's success with Punisher, mixed with the popularity of the Titans at the time.
    They wanted their own Punisher and Vigilante had ended, leaving room for a Deathstroke title.

    Of course, I don't care for Magneto or Emma Frost as members of the X-Men either.
    Especially Magneto.
    It’s simpler than that. Deathstroke was always going to be easier moving forward than Terra. Slade was a cold assassin who did have sympathetic motive that his son died fighting the Titans.

    Terra was designed to betray the Titans because she was a sociopath wanted to kill people and advance her interests. To Slade it was work. To her it was fun. She also had no reason to want the Titans dead besides that she just didn’t care.

    She was designed to be a messed up sociopath who was more destructive and unstable and dangerous than Deathstroke.

    It doesn’t make sense blaming Wolfman for that. The character was designed specifically for that purpose. She was a villain. I think he knows he played it close to the line with a sexual relationship, but it was meant to make it completely certain to readers that she wasn’t a good guy and not to think about redeeming her because Gar had a crush on her, because the whole time she was shacking up with the old man assassin to get her kicks. She was very much designed to be unsympathetic and a hopeless case by the end
    Last edited by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE; 08-10-2020 at 07:15 AM.

  10. #145
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,853

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    It’s simpler than that. Deathstroke was always going to be easier moving forward than Terra. Slade was a cold assassin who did have sympathetic motive that his son died fighting the Titans.

    Terra was designed to betray the Titans because she was a sociopath wanted to kill people and advance her interests. To Slade it was work. To her it was fun. She also had no reason to want the Titans dead besides that she just didn’t care.

    She was designed to be a messed up sociopath who was more destructive and unstable and dangerous than Deathstroke.

    It doesn’t make sense blaming Wolfman for that. The character was designed specifically for that purpose. She was a villain. I think he knows he played it close to the line with a sexual relationship, but it was meant to make it completely certain to readers that she wasn’t a good guy and not to think about redeeming her because Gar had a crush on her, because the whole time she was shacking up with the old man assassin to get her kicks. She was very much designed to be unsympathetic and a hopeless case by the end
    It's obvious that was the writer's goal. I think many fans have problems with a character being handle in that way.

    I remember that I read that story, because I had heard good reviews (especially about Dick becoming Nightwing). However, I did not understand why the story seemed so desperate to convince me of the Terra's evil.
    Last edited by Konja7; 08-10-2020 at 09:31 AM.

  11. #146
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    5,193

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    It's obvios that was the writer's goal. I think many fans have problems with a character being handle in that way.

    I remember that I read that story, because I had heard good reviews (especially about Dick becoming Nightwing). However, I did not understand why the story seemed so desperate to convince me of the Terra's evil.
    Because I think the writers correctly knew that Changling crushing on Terra, her being a younger character who was probably more relateable to readers, and the fact they she was with the team for awhile would make readers inclined to want to trust her or think she was misled when the point of the story was that she a mole who betrayed them. And Wolfman wanted it made very clear that Terra was the villain. It wasn’t about a girl being mislead into selling out her friends. She was working to kill them the entire time.

  12. #147
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    19,547

    Default

    The trade copy of Judas that I own has Wolfman talk about the Terra thing. I haven't read it in a while but if I recall correctly.....at the time, it was NTT and X-Men ruling the charts and both books were doing similar things, largely through happenstance. And over at Marvel, along came Kitty Pride who, I guess, built a strong fanbase quickly. So Wolfman decided to take a similar archetype and upend expectations by making the character into a undercover villain.

    Wolfman didn't want to do Terra's betrayal and have fans feel like it was coming out of nowhere or was out of character, but readers seemed to be ignoring the signs he sprinkled in, so as the issues rolled along Wolfman had to be more and more blatant about it, until we ended up with Terra and Slade very clearly sleeping together....and even then a lot of fans refused to believe that this was just her, that she wasn't being mind controlled or manipulated.

    But Terra remained popular anyway, despite Wolfman's efforts to the contrary, and DC kept trying to find ways to use her and bring her back.....none of which worked of course, because what made Terra so memorable was the fact that she was such a sick and twisted creature in the first place. Had it not been for her betrayal, she'd be no more remembered than Kole or Danny Chase, but the betrayal that made her stick in the mind also made it difficult to capitalize on her afterwards.

    The crap with DC justifying Slade's actions came later; comics were getting into the grimdark anti-hero trend of the 90's and Slade was a great character to capitalize on that, but the history with Terra made Slade *too* evil and unsympathetic, so DC decided to clean him up a bit, at the expense of a character who was dead in the first place.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  13. #148
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,770

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    T...Terra so memorable was the fact that she was such a sick and twisted creature in the first place. Had it not been for her betrayal, she'd be no more remembered than Kole or Danny Chase, but the betrayal that made her stick in the mind also made it difficult to capitalize on her afterwards.
    I disagree somewhat. I was reading the book at the time, and fans liked Terra l lot. She was never a good girl, so she was refreshing change from the goody goody Titans. Also as I've said before -- her powers made for very exciting visuals -- and she had a good look that mixed well with the other Titans. Would she have remained popular if she just went about being a pain in the ass -- and not psychopath? I don't think she would have become a breakout star -- but I think she would have been just as liked as the rest of the team.

    Kole's power to create crystal forms was kinda lame. And Danny Chase's problems have been discussed before.

  14. #149
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    8,256

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    The crap with DC justifying Slade's actions came later; comics were getting into the grimdark anti-hero trend of the 90's and Slade was a great character to capitalize on that, but the history with Terra made Slade *too* evil and unsympathetic, so DC decided to clean him up a bit, at the expense of a character who was dead in the first place.
    LOL, no. DC Started forgiving Slade for what he did instantly - which was also part of Wolfman's original plan since he was the one that actually started writing it. The Judas Contract ended with Slade and Garfield sitting down in a diner and Wolfman had Slade explain to Gar - to the audience - that Terra had always been bad and there was nothing redeeming about her and that she would've done bad **** even without him and that because of that, when all things were said and done, he was not to be at fault for anything that happened with Terra. That's what Wolfman wanted us to believe. It wasn't correct.

    And the fact of the matter is that Terra should be a sympathetic character when looked at through a critical lens as both a fan and as another creator. The sociopathic angle wasn't and still isn't interesting.
    "We come into this world alone and we leave the same way. The time we spent in between - time spent alive, sharing, learning together... is all that makes life worth living." - Jean Grey

  15. #150
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Brooklyn, New York
    Posts
    3,731

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    LOL, no. DC Started forgiving Slade for what he did instantly - which was also part of Wolfman's original plan since he was the one that actually started writing it. The Judas Contract ended with Slade and Garfield sitting down in a diner and Wolfman had Slade explain to Gar - to the audience - that Terra had always been bad and there was nothing redeeming about her and that she would've done bad **** even without him and that because of that, when all things were said and done, he was not to be at fault for anything that happened with Terra. That's what Wolfman wanted us to believe. It wasn't correct.

    And the fact of the matter is that Terra should be a sympathetic character when looked at through a critical lens as both a fan and as another creator. The sociopathic angle wasn't and still isn't interesting.
    Truth, 'sociopath angle' was, is and always will be a crutch to justify the failed attempts at making the real sociopath, Slade into an antihero/ morally grey character.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •