View Poll Results: Do you want Tim to be Robin again?

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  • Yes

    30 23.81%
  • No

    72 57.14%
  • Depends

    24 19.05%
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  1. #256
    Mighty Member Blue22's Avatar
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    It's a suit that REALLY had to grow on me. And I'm still not the hugest fan of it (still hate the name). And really, it only grew on me because of how similar it looks to a hero design that I actually am pretty fond of

  2. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    Dick Grayson is the default Robin top the general audience [all ages]
    Super-hostile 10 year or Teen Titans GO! Robin is the default Robin for general audiences under the age of 20
    Damian is the modern Robin.
    Tim isn't a character that the general audience are aware of. To some fans who read comics in the 90s he was the modern Robin.
    I think that's a common assumption but honestly I don't think "Dick Grayson" is any more well known than "Tim Drake" -- "Robin" is what people know, and they may know that he was an "acrobat" but I'm not so sure how well the name "Dick Grayson" is embedded in the consciousness. It's hard to measure or know, we can only guess, honestly. There are MILLIONS of people who have been exposed to Batman through the video games, or the comics from the 90s forward, where "Robin is Tim Drake"... I'd bet there are more people in this category who care about Batman than those who are operating from a pre-1980s view when "Robin is Dick Grayson."

    The "Dick as Robin" character in TTGO have decidedly not emphasized his actual name. He's just "Robin." Same in Young Justice, he was primarily just "Robin" until he was "Nightwing." And then it was Tim as the new Robin again there. I haven't watched "The Batman" cartoon although that one does look like it's more about "Dick Grayson" as a person who becomes Robin? And "The Lego Batman Movie" made a funny point of making "Dick Grayson" be the name. Then think about how huge the Arkham video games were in the last 15 years. "Tim Drake" is the name of Robin for a lot of people. Heck, considering how much attention has been pushed toward "Jason Todd" and "Damian" over the last few years, it might already be that "Dick Grayson" is the least known name associated with the character... because DC seems to specifically not really like "Dick Grayson" and especially not "Dick".

    So idk, but I don't think DC knows either, just judging by their actions and brand management.
    Last edited by gregpersons; 08-13-2020 at 04:31 PM.

  3. #258
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I feel like tan/brown costumes are difficult to make work at times because they aren't necessarily as vibrant as other colors, and on-top of that it's just a little too busy.

    I also don't think the design makes Tim being capeless work like it does for Dick and Jason.

  4. #259
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregpersons View Post
    I think that's a common assumption but honestly I don't think "Dick Grayson" is any more well known than "Tim Drake" -- "Robin" is what people know, and they may know that he was an "acrobat" but I'm not so sure how well the name "Dick Grayson" is embedded in the consciousness. It's hard to measure or know, we can only guess, honestly. There are MILLIONS of people who have been exposed to Batman through the video games, or the comics from the 90s forward, where "Robin is Tim Drake"... I'd bet there are more people in this category who care about Batman than those who are operating from a pre-1980s view when "Robin is Dick Grayson."

    The "Dick as Robin" character in TTGO have decidedly not emphasized his actual name. He's just "Robin." Same in Young Justice, he was primarily just "Robin" until he was "Nightwing." And then it was Tim as the new Robin again there. I haven't watched "The Batman" cartoon although that one does look like it's more about "Dick Grayson" as a person who becomes Robin? And "The Lego Batman Movie" made a funny point of making "Dick Grayson" be the name. Then think about how huge the Arkham video games were in the last 15 years. "Tim Drake" is the name of Robin for a lot of people. Heck, considering how much attention has been pushed toward "Jason Todd" and "Damian" over the last few years, it might already be that "Dick Grayson" is the least known name associated with the character... because DC seems to specifically not really like "Dick Grayson" and especially not "Dick".

    So idk, but I don't think DC knows either, just judging by their actions and brand management.
    I mean, they call him Dick in YJ and i'm sure that some are fond of Nigthwing/Robin from the BTAS, so i feel that argue againts Dick status in the popular culture is impossible with him being the most used Robin.
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  5. #260
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I feel like tan/brown costumes are difficult to make work at times because they aren't necessarily as vibrant as other colors, and on-top of that it's just a little too busy.

    I also don't think the design makes Tim being capeless work like it does for Dick and Jason.
    My problem is that it reminds me too much to Talon.
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  6. #261
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    My problem is that it reminds me too much to Talon.
    I sometimes forget Talon was even a thing to be honest .

  7. #262
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I sometimes forget Talon was even a thing to be honest .
    I did too, but now everytime that i see Tim, i remember him, don't know why, is not like i care much for him when he was around (is he even still alive?)
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  8. #263
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    I'm guessing the answer to this is "absolutely not" but... how would people feel about a hybrid character? As in, a new character that is essentially the combined histories and traits of Tim Drake and Dick Grayson compressed into a "new" character... kind of like how "Robin John Blake" in The Dark Knight Rises is an intentional combination of Dick, Jason, and Tim ?

    Drake Grayson, the acrobat from The Flying Graysons. His family act was sabotaged by the mob, and his mother and brother were killed and his father Jack became paralyzed. The Wayne Foundation sets them up in an estate nearby the Manor, and then Drake discovers Bruce is Batman and becomes the first Robin. (Tim's history as Robin becomes Drake Grayson's time as Robin. Then, Drake leaves to become Nightwing, and that history is incorporated. Jason Todd and Damian Wayne are the second and third Robins. Essentially the 90s "Robin" and "Nightwing" books are the same person in two timelines... which obviously doesn't exactly work since of course Dick & Tim interacted as brothers... you could Morrison-retcon this as being those conversations were Drake Grayson imagining a conversation with his dead brother.)

    OK OK OK you hate it but is there a way to do this where you can eliminate redundancies to keep the cast size manageable, AND keep the things we all like?

  9. #264
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregpersons View Post
    I'm guessing the answer to this is "absolutely not" but... how would people feel about a hybrid character? As in, a new character that is essentially the combined histories and traits of Tim Drake and Dick Grayson compressed into a "new" character... kind of like how "Robin John Blake" in The Dark Knight Rises is an intentional combination of Dick, Jason, and Tim ?

    Drake Grayson, the acrobat from The Flying Graysons. His family act was sabotaged by the mob, and his mother and brother were killed and his father Jack became paralyzed. The Wayne Foundation sets them up in an estate nearby the Manor, and then Drake discovers Bruce is Batman and becomes the first Robin. (Tim's history as Robin becomes Drake Grayson's time as Robin. Then, Drake leaves to become Nightwing, and that history is incorporated. Jason Todd and Damian Wayne are the second and third Robins. Essentially the 90s "Robin" and "Nightwing" books are the same person in two timelines... which obviously doesn't exactly work since of course Dick & Tim interacted as brothers... you could Morrison-retcon this as being those conversations were Drake Grayson imagining a conversation with his dead brother.)

    OK OK OK you hate it but is there a way to do this where you can eliminate redundancies to keep the cast size manageable, AND keep the things we all like?
    I think that combining any of the Robins is just gonna upset the fanbases frankly, considering how much Tim's popularity has fallen, it seems more likely that they just eliminate his characther in his entirety or put him in limbo until someone wants to reintroduce him as something different. Merging stories rearely work anyway, just ask Superman fans
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  10. #265
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregpersons View Post
    I'm guessing the answer to this is "absolutely not" but... how would people feel about a hybrid character? As in, a new character that is essentially the combined histories and traits of Tim Drake and Dick Grayson compressed into a "new" character... kind of like how "Robin John Blake" in The Dark Knight Rises is an intentional combination of Dick, Jason, and Tim ?

    Drake Grayson, the acrobat from The Flying Graysons. His family act was sabotaged by the mob, and his mother and brother were killed and his father Jack became paralyzed. The Wayne Foundation sets them up in an estate nearby the Manor, and then Drake discovers Bruce is Batman and becomes the first Robin. (Tim's history as Robin becomes Drake Grayson's time as Robin. Then, Drake leaves to become Nightwing, and that history is incorporated. Jason Todd and Damian Wayne are the second and third Robins. Essentially the 90s "Robin" and "Nightwing" books are the same person in two timelines... which obviously doesn't exactly work since of course Dick & Tim interacted as brothers... you could Morrison-retcon this as being those conversations were Drake Grayson imagining a conversation with his dead brother.)

    OK OK OK you hate it but is there a way to do this where you can eliminate redundancies to keep the cast size manageable, AND keep the things we all like?
    We already debated a Tim/Jason hybrid. I ultimately don't think it would serve anyone well outside maybe an Elseworlds take.

    Fans of the characters as individuals don't see an issue of redundancy (at least for the character they like).

  11. #266
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Honestly, I can't criticize the current color scheme too much. As brown and gold are the colors of my favorite football team.

    But still being "Duck Boy the Magnificent" is not a good name.

  12. #267
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregpersons View Post
    I'm guessing the answer to this is "absolutely not" but... how would people feel about a hybrid character? As in, a new character that is essentially the combined histories and traits of Tim Drake and Dick Grayson compressed into a "new" character... kind of like how "Robin John Blake" in The Dark Knight Rises is an intentional combination of Dick, Jason, and Tim ?

    Drake Grayson, the acrobat from The Flying Graysons. His family act was sabotaged by the mob, and his mother and brother were killed and his father Jack became paralyzed. The Wayne Foundation sets them up in an estate nearby the Manor, and then Drake discovers Bruce is Batman and becomes the first Robin. (Tim's history as Robin becomes Drake Grayson's time as Robin. Then, Drake leaves to become Nightwing, and that history is incorporated. Jason Todd and Damian Wayne are the second and third Robins. Essentially the 90s "Robin" and "Nightwing" books are the same person in two timelines... which obviously doesn't exactly work since of course Dick & Tim interacted as brothers... you could Morrison-retcon this as being those conversations were Drake Grayson imagining a conversation with his dead brother.)

    OK OK OK you hate it but is there a way to do this where you can eliminate redundancies to keep the cast size manageable, AND keep the things we all like?
    It might be an okay idea in theory, but I think combining Tim with any of the other Robins is going to benefit his half more than the other half. Because Dick, Jason and Damian have enough going on that they function just fine without being combined with someone else.

    It may be time to just cut Tim loose.

  13. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    It might be an okay idea in theory, but I think combining Tim with any of the other Robins is going to benefit his half more than the other half. Because Dick, Jason and Damian have enough going on that they function just fine without being combined with someone else.

    It may be time to just cut Tim loose.
    Right. Yeah we need to kind of look at it from the two main perspectives.

    1) the fan POV, as people who love these characters and in doing so, have made them real. These characters are all necessary. They're all important. They all matter. Of course!
    2) the corporate POV, as a capitalist enterprise looking to manage IP to maximize value and minimize brand confusion.

    So right away we know we're in trouble because "Robin" is actually several different individuals. This is not the case for "Batman" and "Spider-Man" and "Superman" and "Wolverine" even though they have each been replaced at various times. We know that Bruce is Batman, Peter is Spidey, Clark is Supes, and Logan is Wolvie.

    Think about, how do you even answer this question? "How many Robins are there?" Like we can't answer that without first asking for clarification. How many Robins are there... in the current continuity? All time? The general "canon"? The public's knowledge? If we go by that, isn't "Dark Knight Returns" one of the best-known Batman stories ever? So do we include Carrie Kelley, and what about Stephanie Brown? And so forth.

    So I think we need to basically, in our own minds if nothing else, try to clarify what we actually think the "rules" for the "Robin" IP to be.... because your/my/our ideas are truly no worse than DC's. Assuming you are a human being, that's actually all they are, too!

    Here's the questions that I think can help lead us to better understanding. It's primarily two questions with some follow-ups to clarify.

    IN YOUR IDEAL DC UNIVERSE...

    1) Who is Robin?

    a) What is their secret identity?
    b) What is their role in the story?
    c) Why does Batman need Robin if he has Jim Gordon, and other adult allies?

    2) How many Robins are there?

    a) What is the maximum number of Robins that will be involved in the story?
    b) If there are multiple Robins serving with that codename, is it one at a time, or simultaneously? What is the in-story justification for this choice, either way?
    c) Who are the additional Robins, and are they active or inactive? (In other words, are they retired/dead, or involved in the ongoing story?)
    Last edited by gregpersons; 08-13-2020 at 08:21 PM.

  14. #269
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    It might be an okay idea in theory, but I think combining Tim with any of the other Robins is going to benefit his half more than the other half. Because Dick, Jason and Damian have enough going on that they function just fine without being combined with someone else.

    It may be time to just cut Tim loose.
    I think each Robin is unique enough in their own way that combining them is unnecessary but we usually never get to the story beats or fleshed out enough universe in adaptions to necessitate using them all.

    Young Justice is the closest but has too much going on to adequately focus on all of them.

  15. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think each Robin is unique enough in their own way that combining them is unnecessary but we usually never get to the story beats or fleshed out enough universe in adaptions to necessitate using them all.

    Young Justice is the closest but has too much going on to adequately focus on all of them.
    And Batman Ninja. I haven't watched the movie yet though, because of Jason's mask. It's even worse than Jason's shiny dildo mask, I can't contain my laughter.
    But yeah, disregarding the minus, Batman Ninja and Young Justice, in my knowledge, are the only adaptation medias that included all 4 main Robin.

    Hell, forget about adaptation, we can count with one hand of how many times 4 main Robin are joined together on comic universe. I only remember Robin War and Batman&Robin Eternal. The others are either missing one Robin or too much focused on one Robin (Robin Rises, Titans of Tomorrow).

    Edit : I forgot Robin Rises didn't have Dick
    Last edited by Light of Justice; 08-13-2020 at 11:30 PM.

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