Do you want Tim Drake to be Robin again?

[Frontier]

Because theses characters have been mismanaged since flash point, so most readers that the pre flashpoint run had are probably gone at this point, and the current young justice is also not that exciting.
And the rebirth Titans run of Dicks gen was also not exactly a big success.

It doesn't help that Bendis just isn't a sales draw anymore.

[Bat-Meal]

I'm not down with killing off Tim, just retire him and have him sit out for awhile. It's saves us the time of having to read through a bs resurrection event.

Back in the Gotham Knights run in 'Tec they had a way out, where he was planning to retire and go to Ivy University. They could just go back to that, I mean Harper retired without being killed off, and still appears occasionally as civilian support.

Do you mean animated universe reboot or comic reboot?

Huh, probably both. I could see her getting younger in both, or just being kept as a 20=something from now on.
I don't really mind either way - but it's somewhat telling of things when she was originally in her 30s and refused to join Batman, but now she's in her 20s and following his orders to do investigations etc.

I kind of assumed DADT was still in-play in Bad Blood, they just didn't explicitly mention it.

I'd have to re-watch that bit, but I'm quite sure they said she was medically discharged for having a break-down of some kind - which directly replaces the DADT backstory.

[dietrich]

All the Robins are basically acrobats but I don't think that takes away from Dick being the best at it.

I don't think Tim is guilty of that "cheat" any more than Bruce is.

No one's saying Tim succeeding Bruce on that front means the other Robin's aren't good detectives, just like Batman isn't the only good detective in the DCU but he's the one who gets called "the world's greatest detective."

Animated Babs is usually handled more like a traditional sidekick, but just talking comics-wise it just doesn't seem like something the writers are interested in or could make happen organically. Not much interest in Batman and Batgirl on an ongoing basis compared to Batman and Robin (however negligible that seems at times).

I'd blame Rucka and Brubaker more, if anyone.

What about the other canon female Robin, Steph?

Didn't she start of as a vigilante motivated to spoil her father's plans? I wouldn't use her either since the original comment was about doing telling stories about a Robin with a regular life masquerading as batman's sidekick.

[dietrich]

Yeah, but we're talking about Robin. Dick does not want to be Robin again.

Well, then Bruce is shitty in that context and continues to be shitty with all the other sidekicks. That's his story they decided to make. We can even extend this to Dick as Robin since technically he shouldn't make him a sidekick either, so this part is moot.

Okay, so that's them.

As for Tim, he continues to do his own thing despite being rejected as Robin by Bruce, Jean, and Dick. That seems to be his character. So the question now is, would, could, or should he be Robin, or could, would, should he be someone else.

The difference between the two seems to be just the name and costume considering how much Tim and Damian run around on their own, so I guess I need to ask what is the meaning of Robin these days if that's the case.

As for the replacements, Tim did leave when Damian became Robin but came back because they already consider themselves Bat-family. Tim has protected Gotham from middle to high school and acknowledged by all the members of the family, so even if he goes out of town on his own business he will still be welcome in Gotham if he offers his service... providing no one's being a dick...

All of those don't necessarily mean he wants to be Robin again. I mean if he does, sure, but the way he moves in and out of Gotham is similar to the other grown-up sidekicks.

Catching criminals in Gotham and forming a sidekick training group count as helping Batman since Batman's mission is keeping Gotham safe. It isn't limited to psychologically helping him personally.

No you asked about what Tim the character wants and his motivation taking into account his full history.

So the fact that Dick was Nightwing at the time doesn't matter since Dick was ready to come back and be by Bruce's side at that difficult time.

What bruce did was shitty but more to the point since Tim's whole argument was that the presence of Robin would stop bruce from getting darker. If it wasn't working and he still stayed in the role then it's because he wanted to be robin.

So again i believe that Tim wants to be Robin. heck he even tell Alfred that that is all he wanted to be

[dietrich]

We had a female Robin in Steph (Who I adore as a character). But, and don't take this the wrong way, we really don't need a female Robin. Why? Because females are already represented with Batgirl (Who is just as recognizable as Batman/Robin), Batwoman, Spoiler, and Orphan. All great characters in their own unique way.

Carrie is a fine character. But let's not mistake that for why she is known. She is famous because she was the first female Robin and because she appeared in a seminal story. She only appeared as Robin In the latter. Every sequel or side-story since has seen her appear as a different identity.

The go-to Robin's in outside media will always be Dick and Damian. Dick because he is the most recognizable with the identity, and Damian as he is the most current. Jason is only ever used when the want to do A Death In The Family or Under The Red Hood. Outside of those he has only a few video game appearances. Tim will get a decent showing if they ever adapt ALPOD or Knightfall.

We do have ample reading material. But saying Tim isn't need is a bit much, especially when he has a lot to offer. That is why a majority don't want him to regress back to being Robin. They want him to get his own identity so he can start carving out a path for himself (same way Dick and Jason have). They had him doing that before the New52 derailed it.

The whole point of the thread is to do this: ascertaining what DC should do in order to get more stories published with Tim and to ensure he doesn't step on any other character to do so.

Carrie redefined Robin not just because of her gender but by having Robin not be an Orphan. The usual dynamic between batman and Robin was also different since Carrie was living at home with her parents.

You might not need a female Robin but you really can't speak for everyone. We have plenty of female representation and I like that we have both genders and different races represented under the Robin mantle.

Remember my comment was in response to @Gregpersons ask How many Robins I would have and who would I pick

You don't have to agree with my choices and are free to post your choices.

[Frontier]

Didn't she start of as a vigilante motivated to spoil her father's plans? I wouldn't use her either since the original comment was about doing telling stories about a Robin with a regular life masquerading as batman's sidekick.

Didn't Carrie's life get completely consumed by being Batman's Robin after she got the job?

Carrie redefined Robin not just because of her gender but by having Robin not be an Orphan. The usual dynamic between batman and Robin was also different since Carrie was living at home with her parents.

You might not need a female Robin but you really can't speak for everyone. We have plenty of female representation and I like that we have both genders and different races represented under the Robin mantle.

Remember my comment was in response to @Gregpersons ask How many Robins I would have and who would I pick

You don't have to agree with my choices and are free to post your choices.

She may as well have been an orphan when you saw what her parents were like.

[Konja7]

Didn't she start of as a vigilante motivated to spoil her father's plans? I wouldn't use her either since the original comment was about doing telling stories about a Robin with a regular life masquerading as batman's sidekick.

Yeah. Stephanie hasn't a regular life at first. Her father was a villain and her mother was an addict.

That said, in her time as Batgirl, her life becomes more regular with her mother (who seems to overcome her addiction).

[scary harpy]

No you asked about what Tim the character wants and his motivation taking into account his full history.

So the fact that Dick was Nightwing at the time doesn't matter since Dick was ready to come back and be by Bruce's side at that difficult time.

What bruce did was shitty but more to the point since Tim's whole argument was that the presence of Robin would stop bruce from getting darker. If it wasn't working and he still stayed in the role then it's because he wanted to be robin.

So again i believe that Tim wants to be Robin. heck he even tell Alfred that that is all he wanted to be

I remember Tim saying that.

What would change Tim's motivation about being Robin?

Gaining superpowers (as in 'with great power comes great responsibility')?

If gains powers and can now do what other Gotham vigilantes cannot, then wouldn't he aspire to be more than Robin?

[scary harpy]

I thought the Drake name and costume were serviceable enough; nothing to get excited about but not as awful as some here consider it. I'd be fine with him going by something else and writing "Drake" off as a failed experiment, but I don't want him taking up a moniker that's too recognizable. Dick took the name of a Kryptonian god that's a deep cut of Silver Age Super lore, and Jason took an equally deep cut from Bat history for the Red Hood name. If Tim doesn't get a brand new and unique codename, I'd rather see him do as his older "brothers" did and take a moniker that's mostly forgotten, rather than one people instantly recognize like the Question or Dr. Mid-Nite.

Great point, Ascended.

Following this pattern, shouldn't Tim take a name from Young Justice? That team is really connected to him.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I guess he could always be "The Secret" .

To me, Tim just outgrew what the Robin role needs to be and I rather he just move on and find a new niche.

[dreyga2000]

He should have stayed as Red Robin.Changing his identity was dumb as hell

[Blue22]

I wasn't a huge fan of the Red Robin name but I like it way more than Drake, and way more than him becoming Robin again.

Just make him go back to Red Robin. And put him back in his New 52 outfit while you're at it. I know this is kind of an unpopular opinion but I always thought that was his best look.

[CPSparkles]

double post

[CPSparkles]

I get what you mean. Because Snyder did at one point want to create the next Robin or nightwing

https://comicbook.com/dc/news/snyder...l-star-batman/

So he is contradictory. Maybe it's not crowded when it's his own personal creations that inhabit Gotham

Here are the first few links I can find where Snyder say's it's Crowed in Gotham [will upload the specific interview I was referencing if I find it. It was a Wondercon interview if anyone else has it bookmarked]

https://io9.gizmodo.com/scott-snyder...ess-1786698776

https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/batman...-gotham-by-day

looking at all these several bad thing's that he want's to avoid or was advised to guard against
Not just another body
Taking a role that is already been filled
Taking another mantle

These are all Tim

In this interview Snyder [Batman has too many sidekicks, editorial wants Batman solo and has done for a while, Tomasi's work was about Bruce and Damian emotionally connecting

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/why-...an-wayne-much/

I don't have the Wondrcon interview but here are some links to interviews where Snyder touches the subject of Talking with Johns

[the 1st CBR link is the most detailed advice from Geoff info covering the need for something new not a copy of an existing character or taking an existing identity] and finding a unique role for Duke's unlike anything else in Gotham to give him legs.



being a Robin has stretched and moved from what it used to over the years . Robin doesn't necessarily mean that you partner with batman anymore.
All the Robins have grown and become their own thing
Sometimes Robin can be too close to batman, They wanted someone like nightwing who was is his own character. They didn't want another Nightwing-lite or something that came before. They wanted a character that could add something new/unique to the long legacy of characters

he expands on the WAR idea. Essentially Bermego make Robin more like Batgirl. Inspired by Batman, not a sidekick and someone who saw the state of things and decided to do something independently. Batman is on the Gargoyle Robin is on the street.

He also did want Duke and at one point Harper to become the official Robin even at the start of Rebirth

https://thegww.com/interview-dc-comi...-event-comics/

https://www.comicsbeat.com/building-...o-global-hero/

https://www.cbr.com/all-star-batmans...ust-different/

https://www.cbr.com/interview-snyder-all-star-batman/

[dietrich]

Didn't Carrie's life get completely consumed by being Batman's Robin after she got the job?

She may as well have been an orphan when you saw what her parents were like.

It seemed that way because TDKR wasn't a long running series and the focus was tightly focused on Bruce.
The important thing is that the setup is there for a Robin who was living at home with folks and with another life.

The same can be said for Tim. He may as well have been an Orphan. He spent a good deal of time on his own or away from home at a boarding school.

There was little parental supervision that Tim was able to get away with spending much of his time at the cave training and was able to conduct his nighttime activities as Robin with out his folks ever noticing.