Do you want Tim Drake to be Robin again?

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

In hindsight I feel like Red Robin wasn’t a good name. It still tethered him to the Robin moniker and wasn’t enough of a clean break. Dick got the benefit of being a Teen Titans character first for many years before he was Nightwing and Jason was dead for like 15 years. Tim was just sort of forced out

[Badou]

It's an easy no for me. I dislike the idea of multiple heroes sharing the same hero identity, especially iconic ones. I feel like it waters down the brand. Although I bet if Damian was permanently removed from the Robin identity Tim fans would be more eager for him to reclaim it over him still trying to move on from it.

As for Tim I really don't know what to do with him. His character has been kind of a disaster since the New 52 with no one really knowing what he should do or be. He's only been kept relevant by his attachment to the Teen Titans, or now Young Justice, but those books haven't been very good and it feels like their relevance is diminishing with every new relaunch.

I get that originally he was probably meant to go back to being Robin with Morrison planning to kill Damian at the end of his story, but then Damian proved to be too popular. So now Tim is on his own without the Robin identity to support him and so far he hasn't really been able to find his footing as a character without the Robin identity like Dick and Jason have. Maybe he never will. Maybe him going back to being Robin is DC just giving up trying to find something for him, or attaching him back to the Robin brand to keep his character from falling further into irrelevancy.

[Godlike13]

My question is, at this point what does Tim do for Robin.

[gregpersons]

My question is, at this point what does Tim do for Robin.

I think he provides the stable Teen Robin, the grounded Peter Parker in the center of this madness. You can still have all of the alternative Robins, including Damian calling himself Robin. In the 11 years since Damian became Robin, he's far more frequently still referred to as "Damian" rather than "Robin."

So why deny Tim the role the character was created to be which is -- the brand-facing Robin, the stable one. If all of the Robins are crazy or dead, then there's really nothing to center the story. That's part of the reason there's no real heart to the Batman comics anymore it feels like -- all of the heart has been ripped out entirely, and the last vestiges of it are now entirely dismantled, Alfred and Selina and Dick Grayson. Yay, Batman has no one at all, more time for Punchline. Yay.

IMO, the Bat universe desperately needs a Peter Parker, and the closest to that was the O'Neil editorial years with Tim Drake as Robin.

Robin / Tim Drake -- the relatable and steady hero who is doing it as a passion, he believes in direct-action justice and wants to help.
Red Hood / Jason Todd -- the bad boy ex-Robin
Robin / Damian Wayne -- the dark heir and newest protegee who is more likely to team up with Batman in the field. Sometimes both Robins work together, to which they'd divide codenames for that particular mission, maybe by color (Red, Black) or number (1, 2) or whatever. Captain Robin and Lt. Robin, lol. At the moment they're just calling each other Drake and Damian, which also works fine enough I guess. Edit -- Or, when they're both together you have Teen Wonder and Boy Wonder.
Nightwing / Dick Grayson -- ideally he's the one we know and love, the older brother guy who has some advice but is still figuring himself out ex-Robin
Spoiler / Stephanie Brown -- Tim's girlfriend, she was a Robin for a time too but didn't want to take on the identity and preferred her independence.


What we all liked about Tim was that he was the "normal" one. A continuity reset to clean up his origin with a fresh slate would help stabilize a lot of the Gotham verse. I think all of these alternate identities are really missing the point, and not doing much more than pissing on the potential.

[Somecrazyaussie]

Im fond of "Cardinal" or "Rook" myself.

Excellent idea, Mr. Kenway. It still keeps the "R" in it and I like the fact it has the chess/bird nod going on (OBrianTallent said).

I can get behind this. Make it so!

[Somecrazyaussie]

In hindsight I feel like Red Robin wasn’t a good name. It still tethered him to the Robin moniker and wasn’t enough of a clean break. Dick got the benefit of being a Teen Titans character first for many years before he was Nightwing and Jason was dead for like 15 years. Tim was just sort of forced out

From memory, he was trying to redeem the name. He also wanted to honour who he was, but be separate enough from the Batfamily to do what he need to do on his quest to find Bruce.

Bruce was still content with Tim as Robin prior to "R.I.P", but Dick was the one who forced Tim out by saying Damian need it more and that Tim had outgrown it. Which was rubbish.

[Somecrazyaussie]

I think he provides the stable Teen Robin, the grounded Peter Parker in the center of this madness. You can still have all of the alternative Robins, including Damian calling himself Robin. In the 11 years since Damian became Robin, he's far more frequently still referred to as "Damian" rather than "Robin."

So why deny Tim the role the character was created to be which is -- the brand-facing Robin, the stable one. If all of the Robins are crazy or dead, then there's really nothing to center the story. That's part of the reason there's no real heart to the Batman comics anymore it feels like -- all of the heart has been ripped out entirely, and the last vestiges of it are now entirely dismantled, Alfred and Selina and Dick Grayson. Yay, Batman has no one at all, more time for Punchline. Yay.

IMO, the Bat universe desperately needs a Peter Parker, and the closest to that was the O'Neil editorial years with Tim Drake as Robin.

Robin / Tim Drake -- the relatable and steady hero who is doing it as a passion, he believes in direct-action justice and wants to help.
Red Hood / Jason Todd -- the bad boy ex-Robin
Robin / Damian Wayne -- the dark heir and newest protegee who is more likely to team up with Batman in the field. Sometimes both Robins work together, to which they'd divide codenames for that particular mission, maybe by color (Red, Black) or number (1, 2) or whatever. Captain Robin and Lt. Robin, lol. At the moment they're just calling each other Drake and Damian, which also works fine enough I guess.
Nightwing / Dick Grayson -- ideally he's the one we know and love, the older brother guy who has some advice but is still figuring himself out ex-Robin
Spoiler / Stephanie Brown -- Tim's girlfriend, she was a Robin for a time too but didn't want to take on the identity and preferred her independence.


What we all liked about Tim was that he was the "normal" one. A continuity reset to clean up his origin with a fresh slate would help stabilize a lot of the Gotham verse. I think all of these alternate identities are really missing the point, and not doing much more than pissing on the potential.

Dick, Jason and Damian got roped into being Robin as a means to temper who they may have been without Bruce guiding them -

• Jason was a street kid who probably would have turned to crime if he hadn't tried boosting the wheels off The Batmobile
• Dick (depending on the source) was determined to track Zucco down and would have probably got himself killed. In the New52 we learned he would have become a Talon.
• Damian needed to give him purpose and to guide him from the teachings of the League Of Assassins.

Out of all of them, Tim took it up because he felt Batman needed a Robin. Tim was pretty well-adjusted. He kept being Robin not because he needed to be, but because he wanted to be. It was only later on that they tried to make him more dark by killing his dad off (Stephanie as well).

[gregpersons]

I think the "Into The Spider-Verse" film really even more than Lego Batman or TTGO was the basic template for what shoulda woulda coulda been a Bat Family film if DC could stop being so embarrassed and fussy about legacy and Robin, even though they clearly love to adapt stories where Robin/Jason dies and returns for revenge. They love grim and gritty and can only seem to imagine a less-grim version of Batman and Robin needing to be something like Lego or TTGO, some different design aesthetic entirely.

I very much like how Miles Morales now exists independent of Peter Parker in the ongoing comics too, both called Spider-Man, in the same way you can have more than one "Policeman" in the field, so why not multiple "Spider-Man" or "Robin"? Especially in these cases where it's a small amount.

I dislike the idea that the codenames must be tied to individual identity when we know obviously that's not the case. And ITSV makes that point inspiring rather than brand mismanagement; maybe not anyone can be Batman, but anyone can be Robin. The character was always intended to make the stories more relatable to audiences because Batman, by design, works better as a mysterious figure. When the stories get really into Bruce's head, it can obviously work, but it's been thoroughly mined about as much as any character can be for where they're willing to emotionally or mentally take the character, which isn't very far. He's always a brilliant, eccentric, emotionally damaged workaholic dedicated to ensuring justice on his terms, and that doesn't change.

Batman is Doctor Who and Robin is the companion. In 2020, what matters now is audience representation, and if DC were to embrace the Robin legacy characters, then Batman and Robin are now actually pretty ahead of the curve there. Imagine if DC begins to properly honor Damian's race and ethnicity instead of whitewashing away his mother to better fit the white brand aesthetic. Just among who you already have with Dick, Jason, Tim, Stephanie, Damian, that's a pretty good start to allowing a broad-tent approach to making Batman relatable to all readers. And of course there's been so many more who've been sidelined that are full of far more potential than any of the extended Watchmen characters, if you ask me... Carrie Kelly, Cassandra Cain, both Azraels, both Batwings, Duke Thomas, Harper Row... whatever.

Batman can and should always remain his loner self, but his stories are obviously more fun when he has this school/team of disciples/students too... Bruce could basically be like the classic version of Professor X with Wayne Manor, where it's basically this big empty castle house that he's essentially turned into a halfway house for damaged youth and also a secret base for the team of vigilante ninja/detective do-gooders.

[Fergus]

I think he provides the stable Teen Robin, the grounded Peter Parker in the center of this madness. You can still have all of the alternative Robins, including Damian calling himself Robin. In the 11 years since Damian became Robin, he's far more frequently still referred to as "Damian" rather than "Robin."

So why deny Tim the role the character was created to be which is -- the brand-facing Robin, the stable one. If all of the Robins are crazy or dead, then there's really nothing to center the story. That's part of the reason there's no real heart to the Batman comics anymore it feels like -- all of the heart has been ripped out entirely, and the last vestiges of it are now entirely dismantled, Alfred and Selina and Dick Grayson. Yay, Batman has no one at all, more time for Punchline. Yay.

IMO, the Bat universe desperately needs a Peter Parker, and the closest to that was the O'Neil editorial years with Tim Drake as Robin.

Robin / Tim Drake -- the relatable and steady hero who is doing it as a passion, he believes in direct-action justice and wants to help.
Red Hood / Jason Todd -- the bad boy ex-Robin
Robin / Damian Wayne -- the dark heir and newest protegee who is more likely to team up with Batman in the field. Sometimes both Robins work together, to which they'd divide codenames for that particular mission, maybe by color (Red, Black) or number (1, 2) or whatever. Captain Robin and Lt. Robin, lol. At the moment they're just calling each other Drake and Damian, which also works fine enough I guess. Edit -- Or, when they're both together you have Teen Wonder and Boy Wonder.
Nightwing / Dick Grayson -- ideally he's the one we know and love, the older brother guy who has some advice but is still figuring himself out ex-Robin
Spoiler / Stephanie Brown -- Tim's girlfriend, she was a Robin for a time too but didn't want to take on the identity and preferred her independence.


What we all liked about Tim was that he was the "normal" one. A continuity reset to clean up his origin with a fresh slate would help stabilize a lot of the Gotham verse. I think all of these alternate identities are really missing the point, and not doing much more than pissing on the potential.

The family has Peter Parker types Duke and Dick.
Tim has never been the heart of the family.
I'm not even going to touch the line about A reset giving Tim a fresh slate stabilising the Gotham verse because OMG!

The most successful Robin in decades is the TTGo Robin. He is the face of the Brand and has been since that show blew up. He is the one that represents Robin to the next generation of fans.

You don't get to decide what the Brand representation looks like. The Market dictates that and I'm not even talking about the comics Market.

Also Stable. Tim hasn't been stable for a while now. Are we forgetting RR with unstable Tim? Are we forgetting Rebirth Tim's blueprints for a police state and the fact that he was just fine with working with a fascist?

If you want a stable peter Parker type in Robin colours then Duke is the only that fits that for a while now.

Tim does nothing for Robin. He does nothing for the Bat family. He does nothing for the Gotham verse.

These all function without him. In reality most times he is adapted out that's how little he adds.

[dietrich]

From memory, he was trying to redeem the name. He also wanted to honour who he was, but be separate enough from the Batfamily to do what he need to do on his quest to find Bruce.

Bruce was still content with Tim as Robin prior to "R.I.P", but Dick was the one who forced Tim out by saying Damian need it more and that Tim had outgrown it. Which was rubbish.

Damian did need it more. Robin was a created to save boys heading down a dark path.

All Robins were Forced out.

[dietrich]

Dick, Jason and Damian got roped into being Robin as a means to temper who they may have been without Bruce guiding them -

• Jason was a street kid who probably would have turned to crime if he hadn't tried boosting the wheels off The Batmobile
• Dick (depending on the source) was determined to track Zucco down and would have probably got himself killed. In the New52 we learned he would have become a Talon.
• Damian needed to give him purpose and to guide him from the teachings of the League Of Assassins.

Out of all of them, Tim took it up because he felt Batman needed a Robin. Tim was pretty well-adjusted. He kept being Robin not because he needed to be, but because he wanted to be. It was only later on that they tried to make him more dark by killing his dad off (Stephanie as well).

Why does everyone always forget about Carrie? Because she's a girl or is it the ginger thing?

They all wanted to be Robin. to help. Damian was already a solo hero in Gotham before he became Robin.
The only one that was 'Roped into it' was Dick Grayson age 12 and the Robin that often pops up in study's, books and lectures on 'How Literature and media normalises Child Abuse in fictional works.

That idea of Batman grooming Robin popped up a few times back in my Uni days.

Dick, Damian and Jason weren't roped into it they requested and genuinely wanted to just help Batman make the world better and I'm so sick of fandom doing this Tim only one to choose it.

Tim actively sort batman out because Batman isn't some loon who goes door to door asking for spare kids parents or orphanages can donate to his Robin Dojo.

Batman found the others and Tim sort out Batman eventually they all ended up Robins after requesting to be allowed to help.

Robin fans need to stop the thing of undermining others to prop up another.

[Godlike13]

Emulating an proven but overdone formula, that was already done with Robin for decades, is hardly novel. I don’t see that helping Robin catch more audiences any more then it has helped Red Robin or Drake catch an audience.

Here the thing Tim is not really doing things different as Red Robin or Drake that he did as Robin. He even goes back and forth between still looking like Robin to reinforce this point. Nothing they are doing with Tim in comics, or have done with him out of comics, says they should take that and reapply it back to Robin again. The current Young Justice is practically screaming this with its lukewarm reception. Once upon a time Tim helped them modernize Robin, but he hasn’t aged well. He can’t do for Robin what he did at this point, in fact him going back to try and emulate his glory days would actually outdate it.

[dietrich]

I was talking about Post-Crisis only, but yeah that one is better.



I don't think that Morrison cared much for any of the Robins outside Dick and Damian, he didn't dislike then or anything, but his take on then is nothing special, his Tim was fine, he was a competent, self assured crime fighter but nothing that really stands out, his Jason....that one speak for itself.

Frankly, i would bet that Dick is the one and only partner for Bruce as far as he is concerned.

I've not come across any interviews where he talks about the Robins much.
Damian the only thing I can find is his comment about it been funny to see him back fucking up Dc's continuity.

he had no long term plans for. He's story for Damian was to die and he stuck to it sodoen't really indicate that he likes him or cares at all.

Dick well, He called him Batman's greatest succession or achievement. He is bruce's Legacy. Batman and Robin will carry on even after Bruce Wayne is long gone.

Batman and Robin Reborn was his evolution of Batman. It was a story about Dick growing and taking the huge step of guiding a troubled kid while Dick himself was also dealing with the loss of his father.

I don't know what he thinks about Tim and Jason but yeah I think it's clear he think's Dick is the bestest and the best partner to Bruce.

Dick and Damian is pretty much still a version of Dick and Bruce.

[Light of Justice]

From memory, he was trying to redeem the name. He also wanted to honour who he was, but be separate enough from the Batfamily to do what he need to do on his quest to find Bruce.

Bruce was still content with Tim as Robin prior to "R.I.P", but Dick was the one who forced Tim out by saying Damian need it more and that Tim had outgrown it. Which was rubbish.

First, there's no mention from Dick, or Bruce or anyone that Tim had outgrown Robin. No canon material implied that there's age restriction for Robin. Second, yes, Damian needs Robin more is one of factor that made Tim lose Robin title, but Dick also said that he saw Tim as his equal. No matter that Robin especially on Tim era often worked solo, the main role of Robin is Batman's sidekick, Batman's subordinate. You can't treat your equal as your subordinate. This is one of reason why I don't want Tim to be Robin again, because it will regress him to 'sidekick' status.

Why some fans blame and berate Dick for choosing Robin by his own and for his own? Robin is DICK'S legacy, based on his family colors. For me he has every right to choose who will wear HIS legacy and HIS family colors. Besides, aren't we often see in real world when there's power shift on organization, the organizational structure will get some changes too?

[dietrich]

First, there's no mention from Dick, or Bruce or anyone that Tim had outgrown Robin. No canon material implied that there's age restriction for Robin. Second, yes, Damian needs Robin more is one of factor that made Tim lose Robin title, but Dick also said that he saw Tim as his equal. No matter that Robin especially on Tim era often worked solo, the main role of Robin is Batman's sidekick, Batman's subordinate. You can't treat your equal as your subordinate. This is one of reason why I don't want Tim to be Robin again, because it will regress him to 'sidekick' status.

spoilers:

Unpopular opinion maybe, but I don't like when fans blame Dick for choosing Robin by his own and for his own. Robin is DICK"S legacy, based on his family colors. For me he has every right to choose who will wear HIS legacy and HIS family colors. Besides, aren't we often see in real world when there's power shift on organization, the organizational structure will get some changes too?

end of spoilers

That is not an unpopular opinion. Dick has every right to decide and he made the right choice. He made the choice any decent human being would [looking at you Alfred Pennyworth you weak necked 'A hole']. What a hero would do. Save a 10 year old who had no one else or allow a mature teen to keep wearing his favourite costume.

Even if Dick didn't view Tim as an equal he still made the right choice. One needed it more. Damian was the more vulnerable and in need of guidance. They had all lost their father but Dick, Tim and Alfred still had each other. Damian had no one having left the LOA.

The only one's who question the choice or throw blame are a particular subset of Tim fans who devout their time and blogs to hating on Dick and Damian like thattimdrakeguy and writers of Tim Drake woobie fan fiction.

most don't view i like that. At least not that I've seen