View Poll Results: Do you want Tim to be Robin again?

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  • Yes

    36 24.16%
  • No

    88 59.06%
  • Depends

    25 16.78%
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  1. #286
    Incredible Member Light of Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    He took over B&R after Morrison.
    But isn't that Bruce and Damian B&R, not Dick and Damian B&R?

  2. #287
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Light of Justice View Post
    But isn't that Bruce and Damian B&R, not Dick and Damian B&R?
    He wrote Dickbats and Damian in a 3 issue arc before the reboot, called White Knight. It was like a few months befire the reboot, he didn't write then much after that thougth.
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  3. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Dick and Damian are exceptions because the design behind them are different. Damian was created as a parody of Bruce, not as a replacement of Dick. Dick and Damian are inherently easier to write together. Dick for example doesn't have to lose IQ points or play the boy scout strait man. They instead complemented each other as they fully are, and from pretty much the initial sales pitch of them as a tandem.

    Umbrella Academy and it's character's were created as an ensemble, the Robin's were not and have decades of development without the other Robin's in mind. The more they are together, the more they're natural redundancies are evident. So to avoid that they have to walk them back. The more they interact, the more they push the simplified boy band versions, and the more readers start to actually accept those reduced versions of those characters. Now can they do a Robins book with them all as the complete characters we have seen them to be, sure its not impossible i guess, but it think it would be very difficult and its not something i see being done with a high likelihood. Nor do i even see the benefit to them all being packaged together.
    I would say Dick plays the "boy scout straight man" at some level in his interactions with Damian.

    The thing is Dick was allowed to be a competent hero and a mentor for Damian. That's why their dynamic works so good.

    If Dick and Damian team up in equal terms (similar age and experience), the interactions wouldn't be so positive and it would even end in demerit for Dick.

  4. #289
    Incredible Member Light of Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    He wrote Dickbats and Damian in a 3 issue arc before the reboot, called White Knight. It was like a few months befire the reboot, he didn't write then much after that thougth.
    Ah I see.. Thanks for the info..

  5. #290
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    He took over B&R after Morrison.
    Not quite accurate, after Morrison the B&R had 4 different writers (Cornell, Tomasi, Winnick, Hine) it wasn't until the New 52 that Tomasi took complete control of the title.
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  6. #291
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Light of Justice View Post
    Ah I see.. Thanks for the info..
    Your welcome
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  7. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    I would say Dick plays the "boy scout straight man" at some level in his interactions with Damian.

    The thing is Dick was allowed to be a competent hero and a mentor for Damian. That's why their dynamic works so good.

    If Dick and Damian team up in equal terms (similar age and experience), the interactions wouldn't be so positive and it would even end in demerit for Dick.
    Dick and Damian is a spin on Bruce and Dick. Reversing that dynamic with the mentor being the more relaxed and easygoing one, and his protege the uptight and meaner one (more extreme then even Bruce). That was the idea behind their tandem. Their abilities and skills don't need to be put on scales to try and differentiate them. If Dick and Damian team up in equal terms their personality, upbringing, and sensibilities would still foil the other's.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 08-14-2020 at 07:07 AM.

  8. #293
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregpersons View Post
    Right. Yeah we need to kind of look at it from the two main perspectives.

    1) the fan POV, as people who love these characters and in doing so, have made them real. These characters are all necessary. They're all important. They all matter. Of course!
    2) the corporate POV, as a capitalist enterprise looking to manage IP to maximize value and minimize brand confusion.

    So right away we know we're in trouble because "Robin" is actually several different individuals. This is not the case for "Batman" and "Spider-Man" and "Superman" and "Wolverine" even though they have each been replaced at various times. We know that Bruce is Batman, Peter is Spidey, Clark is Supes, and Logan is Wolvie.

    Think about, how do you even answer this question? "How many Robins are there?" Like we can't answer that without first asking for clarification. How many Robins are there... in the current continuity? All time? The general "canon"? The public's knowledge? If we go by that, isn't "Dark Knight Returns" one of the best-known Batman stories ever? So do we include Carrie Kelley, and what about Stephanie Brown? And so forth.

    So I think we need to basically, in our own minds if nothing else, try to clarify what we actually think the "rules" for the "Robin" IP to be.... because your/my/our ideas are truly no worse than DC's. Assuming you are a human being, that's actually all they are, too!

    Here's the questions that I think can help lead us to better understanding. It's primarily two questions with some follow-ups to clarify.

    IN YOUR IDEAL DC UNIVERSE...

    1) Who is Robin?

    a) What is their secret identity?
    b) What is their role in the story?
    c) Why does Batman need Robin if he has Jim Gordon, and other adult allies?

    2) How many Robins are there?

    a) What is the maximum number of Robins that will be involved in the story?
    b) If there are multiple Robins serving with that codename, is it one at a time, or simultaneously? What is the in-story justification for this choice, either way?
    c) Who are the additional Robins, and are they active or inactive? (In other words, are they retired/dead, or involved in the ongoing story?)
    1) c) I'm going to repeat what I said in the Bat-family controversy thread.

    Talking about the modern take of aggressively broody Batman, Robin needs to be there to be the voice of innocence, positivity, and in the dark world of Gotham crime and insanity, a reminder of someone worth fighting for.

    Both Gordon and Alfred are too old and have seen too much. Gordon is good but too careful, lawful and distant, Alfred has good advice but he doesn't have the innocent petulance to call out Bruce. They have the employer-master thing going on and Alfred is too mature to be hands-on, preferring to let Bruce learn from his mistakes on his own.

    So the problem with the current Robins is Damian's too much like him, and both Duke and Tim are too reserved and respectful. The ones who fit my criteria are Dick and child Jason. I was going to include Steph, but she's doing too much calling out and not enough staying around. Given the choice, she'll leave Batman, and she does.

  9. #294
    Ultimate Member dietrich's Avatar
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    @ Resting voice Modern Batman's world doesn't need a Robin.

    It doesn't need a Robin because it's so dark and Aggressive.

    Batman being a hero and doing what is right takes in Dick who reminds Bruce of himself because Bruce watched him lose his folks.

    Dick later becomes Robin

    Dick is the voice of reason and the light. when he graduates then Damian is the only one that makes any sense

    1, he is Bruce's biological son who was dumped on his door step so he is forced to take responsibility
    2, He isn't an Orphaned child that Bruce choose to adopt and take care off then proceeded to endanger
    3,Damian was a criminal and killer. The world is made better and safer if he channelled his talents to being a hero
    4, Batman rehabilitates criminals
    5,Damian is the only Robin whose live becomes less violent, lighter by becoming Robin. Everyone else wasn't living a violent live filled with brutality.
    6, I like Damian.
    Last edited by dietrich; 08-14-2020 at 09:32 AM.

  10. #295
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I think modern Batman's world still needs a Robin because even when they don't use Robin they still make or use characters who basically are Robin, at least functionally.

  11. #296

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    Beware the Batman had Katana fill the Robin role so yeah Batman needs what the mantle represents than the mantle itself.

  12. #297
    Incredible Member deadboy80's Avatar
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    Yes. He got a raw deal. Worse than Jason.

  13. #298
    Mighty Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    I don't like Tim being Robin again because Damian is Robin and Tim going back to the role is a reversion of character development. It just means Damian will inevitably reclaim the title after a while anyway. Or probably anyway.

    If Robin wasn't an apprentice role that characters grow out of it wouldn't be so bad, but even then it's been established as Damian's mantle for a while now, and it going back to a previous holder rather than someone new just seems weird and very temporary. Also, I don't like seeing characters stripped of a mantle, but since we don't know if Damian loses the mantle or gives it up I won't make any judgements on that yet.

  14. #299

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    No, I don't want Tim to be Robin again. Or Red Robin. Or Drake.

    I think those are all lazy choices. I also think that the moment (the first time around) when Tim decided to give up being Robin because (IIRC) he felt he needed to go outside Batman's ethos, and so he picked a new name - and it was Red Robin! - was, to put it politely, uncreative. And when (the second time around, IIRC) he decided not to become Robin because he wanted to be respectful of the lost Jason, and so he picked another name - Red Robin! - ditto.

    Of course, the name always amused me because it's the name of a well-known food chain. Tim Drake sits in a large chair and ponders. "Criminals are a hungry and unhealthy lot. I shall be..." (A fast-food menu blows in through the open window) "... Red Robin!"

    Really, guys. The Crimson Talon. (I first thought of that before the Court of Owls and their Talons. I guess they sort of own it now.) The Red Dragon. I don't know, the Scarlet Swinger! Something that will put a little more distance between him and all the Robins. Time to grow up.
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  15. #300

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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    I say DC should give Tim the Flamebird identity, no one has used it in years.
    You know, that's not half-bad.

    I am a big fan of Bette Kane as Flamebird, and think they did awful things to her in the her Batwoman storyline, and that there is no reason in the world she has to base herself on her cousin Kate (which is what she was doing). I'd rather see her healed and redeemed as a more competent Flamebird, and I even thought up a pitch for her solo series. (Well, not quite solo. She had a sidekick.)

    But: if they're not going to do that - and everything I know about DC comics suggests they're not - it's a great choice for Tim. And seeing him and Dick (and I don't mean Ric!) work together as Nightwing & Flamebird would be one of the all-time great call-backs - all the way to Superman #158 in 1963!
    Last edited by Doctor Bifrost; 08-17-2020 at 01:21 AM.
    Doctor Bifrost

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