Do you want Tim Drake to be Robin again?

[Restingvoice]

Nah. Why should he be?

[SiegePerilous02]

They just should respectfully retire the character. He doesn't have much going on when he isn't Robin.

Not really if we are talking about pre crisis.
- Dick was there when Bruce took Jason in
- it took Jason several issues until Bruce agreed that he could become his new partner

Dick still wasn't fired pre-COIE. He and Bruce had friction but it was a two way street, but it was resolved with the NTT/Outsiders team up and transition to Nightwing.

This is why COIE and Chuck Dixon are the worst and Nightgwing: Year One is absolute garbage.

[Tzigone]

This is why COIE and Chuck Dixon are the worst and Nightgwing: Year One is absolute garbage.

I agree Nightwing: Year One was garbage, but Bruce firing Dick long predates that (Batman #408 and I think #416 kicked it up a notch). I like quite a lot (though not all) of what Dixon did in the 90s with Dick and Tim and Steph. Not his later stuff with them and not his Connor Hawke stuff at all.

[king81992]

I hit depends because I passionatly hate Drake and his suit, they are the worse, hell even the reason Tim chose the new name is beyond moronic, his evil counterpart used it and now it was cool??? Before everything started going wrong with his character, and I mean when DC decided to kill everyone he loved and gave a lot of angst to him, he only wanted to be Robin so it's a good start point but I'm worried because I don't trust DC have the skill and/or will to write him decently.

This always happens, writers decide to 'fix' and make a lighter character 'more interesting' by making them angsty. It NEVER works. DC writers need to get the memo.

[Tzigone]

This always happens, writers decide to 'fix' and make a lighter character 'more interesting' by making them angsty. It NEVER works. DC writers need to get the memo.

The thing is, it's not even like Tim was especially "light" IMO - quite middling, IMO. I mean, he had issues with his father, despite them loving each other. Failures sometimes. Was very compartmentalizing of different aspects of his life (not really in a healthy way). I mean, compared to most of something like Impulse (a character I also enjoyed), the title didn't have as light a tone (though that one had some angstier stuff, too, but not as much in general tone). But I guess it's all relative, and relative to some titles/characters...

[king81992]

The thing is, it's not even like Tim was especially "light" IMO - quite middling, IMO. I mean, he had issues with his father, despite them loving each other. Failures sometimes. Was very compartmentalizing of different aspects of his life (not really in a healthy way). I mean, compared to most of something like Impulse (a character I also enjoyed), the title didn't have as light a tone (though that one had some angstier stuff, too, but not as much in general tone). But I guess it's all relative, and relative to some titles/characters...

Compared to Batman and some of the other contemporary heroes at the time Tim was light. He had some dark moments/ traits but didn't go full edge until the later parts of Johns TT run and the writers who came after.

[SiegePerilous02]

I agree Nightwing: Year One was garbage, but Bruce firing Dick long predates that (Batman #408 and I think #416 kicked it up a notch). I like quite a lot (though not all) of what Dixon did in the 90s with Dick and Tim and Steph. Not his later stuff with them and not his Connor Hawke stuff at all.

I know it predates it, but that particular story took it to the next level.

I'm not too fond of Dixon in general. His takes on the characters I care about range from being just pretty good (but just as good if not better elsewhere, like Dick and Babs) or outright bad (Bruce).

[scary harpy]

Robin is a step backwards for Tim.

I was reading Young Justice because I thought it would advance these characters...especially since no one else seemed to want them.

I am truly disappointed.

[TheCape]

I know it predates it, but that particular story took it to the next level.

I'm not too fond of Dixon in general. His takes on the characters I care about range from being just pretty good (but just as good if not better elsewhere, like Dick and Babs) or outright bad (Bruce).

Really Bruce firing Dick is a pick your poison situation, you either go for Bruce being massively condescending and treating Dick like a kid, because now that he almost die figthing the Joker as an adult now makes you realize that putting a child in danger is bad, or you go the Year One route and Bruce being an *******. Neither of those takes are particurlay great.

[Frontier]

Tim was created to reverse the basic Dynamic of the Batman and Robin, with Batman needing a Robin to not go nuts and not him having a Robin to make sure nobody ever became like him. Tim spearheaded that idea which only reinforced the Bat-jerk to the point that it's now ingrained in the character of Batman that Bruce is basically Toxic Masculinity 101 but somehow heroic. That's not good, to say the least.

It wasn't so much that he was going nuts as he was constantly on edge and taking too much on himself after Jason died. A lot of Bruce and Tim's interactions helped humanize Bruce again and show his softer side during that era.

And having a solo for Robin is good but DC can't have their cake and eat it too. Either Robin is Batman's partner and/or a member of the TT or he's solo. He can't be all of those things at the same time because the character doesn't allow for it.

If Batman can multi-task, why not Robin?

I know it predates it, but that particular story took it to the next level.

I'm not too fond of Dixon in general. His takes on the characters I care about range from being just pretty good (but just as good if not better elsewhere, like Dick and Babs) or outright bad (Bruce).

I would say those "just as good, if not better" takes probably were building off what Dixon did in some form or another.

On average I don't think his Bruce was that bad aside from certain instances.

Really Bruce firing Dick is a pick your poison situation, you either go for Bruce being massively condescending and treating Dick like a kid, because now that he almost die figthing the Joker as an adult now makes you realize that putting a child in danger is bad, or you go the Year One route and Bruce being an *******. Neither of those takes are particurlay great.

The Robin anniversary special went with Bruce deliberately acting in a way to make Dick leave so he could become his own man.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

No. I think most people covered it, but the time to really do that was after Morrison’s run when Bruce came back, Damian died in Batman inc, and you could face reverted the status quo from before.

But the truth is as much as it sucked for Tim to get left out a bit in the new era..... he hasn’t been Robin for 12 years, Damian’s been probably the freshest thing in the Batman line, is quite popular, and realistically has a ton of mileage before they should even consider moving on from him as Robin. And while many years ago going back to Robin might have felt “right” for Tim, today it would be a step backwards and limit the character and kind of detail Damian and be an admission that they couldn’t successfully transition Tim into a new role. I’m not sure that’s merited or would be well received. So much had happened that it feels like Bruce would go “oh you’re doing this again”.

Honestly if they really smart they’d team Tim and Damian up. The two have their little rivalry so they could play off that by giving Damian the same edge he had with Grayson and Tim could take a real leadership role that he is really needing. Idk have a book called “Son’s of the Bat”. Do some 1970’s globe trotting,

[Frontier]

No. I think most people covered it, but the time to really do that was after Morrison’s run when Bruce came back, Damian died in Batman inc, and you could face reverted the status quo from before.

But the truth is as much as it sucked for Tim to get left out a bit in the new era..... he hasn’t been Robin for 12 years, Damian’s been probably the freshest thing in the Batman line, is quite popular, and realistically has a ton of mileage before they should even consider moving on from him as Robin. And while many years ago going back to Robin might have felt “right” for Tim, today it would be a step backwards and limit the character and kind of detail Damian and be an admission that they couldn’t successfully transition Tim into a new role. I’m not sure that’s merited or would be well received. So much had happened that it feels like Bruce would go “oh you’re doing this again”.

Honestly if they really smart they’d team Tim and Damian up. The two have their little rivalry so they could play off that by giving Damian the same edge he had with Grayson and Tim could take a real leadership role that he is really needing. Idk have a book called “Son’s of the Bat”. Do some 1970’s globe trotting,

Admittedly Morrison seemed to prefer Tim as Bruce's partner than he did Damian, but of course back then Damian was partnered with Dick, so...

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Tim’s biggest issue right now is something I’ve long felt about him.... namely that for all the little differences, Tim really was an attempt to go away from the Bad Boy street Robin that was Jason Todd and get closer to a modern Dick Grayson type. And now that he isn’t Robin, they are struggling to make him a Nightwing type character that isn’t Nightwing 1B. Jason got a reprieve because he’s different enough and can do the edgy Punisher style Robin. I suspect Damian will be easier to transition someday too because he’s different enough and has the whole league of assassins lineage and son of Bruce stuff to really fallback on. But Tim is a more tech savvy Dick Grayson who has the same positive outlook and is designed to balance things out. It also doesn’t help that while Dick had a popular era defining Titan’s run and DC has some affinity for his era’s heroes.... Tim’s era constantly get screwed.

I kinda really think Tim should be like a traveling agent of Batman that takes on international cases that are more Indiana Jones/James Bond style affairs. Or do more mystical Nanda Parbat type stuff

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Admittedly Morrison seemed to prefer Tim as Bruce's partner than he did Damian, but of course back then Damian was partnered with Dick, so...

And honestly.... I get it. Tim was designed to balance out Bruce. Damian was designed to balance out Dick. However Damian is new and fresh and Tim kinda really feels like he needs to establish himself because going back to Robin is going to feel like he couldn’t do what Dick and Jason did and successfully move on. It’s kind of a problem that came out of a good thing in Damian. Also not for nothing, they were running out of ideas for Tim with Bruce. War Games was basically Bruce screwing with Tim to cause drama, Identity Crisis tried to give Tim an edgier angle with being an orphan, Face the Face did the whole adoption thing but it kinda feels like it’s nice in theory but doesn’t change much for the actual dynamic.

Like Tim going back to Robin is just going to feel like “ok we are back to the 90’s status quo”. It’s not very enticing.

I think I stand by my original idea. Team him up with Damian. Damian is popular but he really doesn’t need to lead a book, Tim can actually be the “star” of the book and a writer can experiment to develop some going with him while having a strong dynamic to play off of.

[dietrich]

And honestly.... I get it. Tim was designed to balance out Bruce. Damian was designed to balance out Dick. However Damian is new and fresh and Tim kinda really feels like he needs to establish himself because going back to Robin is going to feel like he couldn’t do what Dick and Jason did and successfully move on. It’s kind of a problem that came out of a good thing in Damian. Also not for nothing, they were running out of ideas for Tim with Bruce. War Games was basically Bruce screwing with Tim to cause drama, Identity Crisis tried to give Tim an edgier angle with being an orphan, Face the Face did the whole adoption thing but it kinda feels like it’s nice in theory but doesn’t change much for the actual dynamic.

Like Tim going back to Robin is just going to feel like “ok we are back to the 90’s status quo”. It’s not very enticing.

I think I stand by my original idea. Team him up with Damian. Damian is popular but he really doesn’t need to lead a book, Tim can actually be the “star” of the book and a writer can experiment to develop some going with him while having a strong dynamic to play off of.

Tim and Damian teaming up. I'm interested.