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  1. #1
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    Post Can the MCU survive without the original Avengers?

    Hi guys

    In the 4th phase of the MCU Marvel intends to introduce a number of characters, Sam Wilson as the new Captain America, Jane Foster as the new Thor, and Shang Chi. It will also introduce the mutants and the X-men. But phase 4 will also retire the original Avengers, characters we knew since the start of the MCU.

    In your opinion, do you think that the MCU can survive without the original Avengers?

    In my opinion, and I may be wrong, I don't think so.

    If you haven't noticed, phase 4 looks a lot like the all new all different Marvel movement that happened years ago. I believe that this move, the retirement of the Avengers and introducing these new characters as their replacements will ultimately make the MCU more complex for all the wrong reasons because they are becoming closer to the comics more than they need to be.

    Take the story of why Thor became unworthy for an example, it's a very complex story that looks inside his psyche, the story also dwell in the lore of the hammer that has been built for years, not in one or two films. Also, we need to know why Jane Foster became Thor and for how long she will be.

    The other problem is that when the Fantastic 4 are introduced we will sure to have Galactus, and he might be the next major villain, and if these new characters become the new Avengers then there is a chance that the movies won't be as exciting as the others, since these characters have never faced a threat near the threat of Galactus.

    That's my opinion, what do you guys think?

  2. #2
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    I don't know if the MCU will survive because I don't know if movie theatres as we know them will survive. But I am willing to bet that the MCU versions of these stories will be more satisfying than the comic versions. The story of Jane taking over for Thor was unsatisfying in the comics because Thor suddenly became unworthy to hold the hammer for no reason at all (and they spent years teasing an explanation) and then this new female Thor took over and they teased a mystery of who it was and trolled the fans who didn't like this new Thor.

    In the MCU it's likely to be a simpler story that doesn't stretch out for years or constantly troll the fans. Jane Foster gets the hammer and becomes the new Thor, it's pretty simple when you come down to it. Ongoing comics make simple premises needlessly complicated and often make existing characters look bad to build up their replacements. I don't think Feige and his writers will make the same mistake. They didn't, for example, have Carol come into the Avengers sequel and upstage the existing heroes and save the day. Because they aren't paid to make dumb choices.

  3. #3
    Niffleheim
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    I think it will survive because the MCU is catering to a bigger demographic than the niche and insular comic book readership.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    I don't know if the MCU will survive because I don't know if movie theatres as we know them will survive. But I am willing to bet that the MCU versions of these stories will be more satisfying than the comic versions. The story of Jane taking over for Thor was unsatisfying in the comics because Thor suddenly became unworthy to hold the hammer for no reason at all (and they spent years teasing an explanation) and then this new female Thor took over and they teased a mystery of who it was and trolled the fans who didn't like this new Thor.

    In the MCU it's likely to be a simpler story that doesn't stretch out for years or constantly troll the fans. Jane Foster gets the hammer and becomes the new Thor, it's pretty simple when you come down to it. Ongoing comics make simple premises needlessly complicated and often make existing characters look bad to build up their replacements. I don't think Feige and his writers will make the same mistake. They didn't, for example, have Carol come into the Avengers sequel and upstage the existing heroes and save the day. Because they aren't paid to make dumb choices.
    In terms of theaters only time will tell, but regardless I still believe that the MCU needs the original Avengers. There are still so many stories to tell, Avengers vs X-men, Avengers, X-men, and F4 vs Galactus or Onslaught, and much more.

    I liked the stories I mentioned were in the comics, but they didn't need to completely replace the original Avengers they could have made them locked in a separate dimension or on a hiatus for cursaide in another planet. But these stories are complex and don't need to be in the MCU.

  5. #5
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    I don't think they have to be complex, though, is what I'm saying. The comics are constantly making simple premises complicated because of all the events and relaunches and the need to constantly shake up the status quo for sales. So a simple premise like "Steve Rogers grows old, Sam Wilson takes over as Captain America" somehow wound up as "Sam Wilson is Captain America but so is an evil version of Steve Rogers who was working for HYDRA all along." The MCU can take these stories and not necessarily make them good but at least do them without unnecessary complications and character assassinations.

    Edit: And of course the MCU has one huge advantage in that they can kill or retire characters for real (or at least make us think it might be for real), which the comics can't.
    Last edited by gurkle; 08-05-2020 at 09:10 PM.

  6. #6
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    The original Avengers were the central focus of AVENGERS AGE OF ULTRON and that made far less money than the first one, and Infinity War and Endgame (stuffed to the brim with additional characters).

    The MCU thrives on novelty, introducing new characters new teams and then merging it together and building forward from that. As long as they do that then it's fine.

  7. #7
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    People were doubting the MCU for not having the X-Men, so I think they'll be just fine as long as they continue to have Feige steer the ship.

  8. #8
    Niffleheim
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    Yep, the minute the MCU loses Feige is when i will start to worry but for now i'm open to whatever they have in store for me. By the way i hated all the Avengers (except for Thor) and i was still slightly entertained and saw the possibilities just imagine how i'm gonna crap my pants when i get the characters i love?
    Last edited by Tofali; 08-06-2020 at 12:10 AM.

  9. #9
    Original CBR member Jabare's Avatar
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    Nothing lasts forever, but what keeps the MCU fresh is the newer characters. Black Panther and Spider-Man sell out on their own.

    If it wasn't for the new heroes and evolution of the later heroes I probably would have already dipped on the MCU.

    Outside of Black Widow, the other original heroes had their overarching stories. I guess Hawkeye didn't, but no one's clamoring for a Hawkeye movie. Give Antman his 3rd movie. Doctor Strange his sequel. BP 2. Captain Marvel 2. Blade. The Eternals.

    Then Marvel's going to redo the X-men. Than the Fantastic Four. Throw in a lesser hero with tons of potential like Dark Hawk. Then introduce Spectrum.


    Marvel literally has a gold mine of an IP, and Disney knows how to play it safe but still hit home runs. I wouldn't be concerned.


    Lastly, not all the phase one movies were smash hits either. Some were so-so, but we don't deride them, so we've got to keep that in perspective. And honestly, not all the films have aged well either, but there is so much goodwill towards the MCU, Disney, and the journey they've taken us all on, I think it's collectively overlooked.
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  10. #10
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tofali View Post
    Yep, the minute the MCU loses Feige is when i will start to worry but for now i'm opened to whatever they have in store for me. By the way i hated all the Avengers (except for Thor) and i was still slightly entertained and saw the possibilities just imagine how i'm gonna crap my pants when i get the characters i love?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jabare View Post
    Nothing lasts forever, but what keeps the MCU fresh is the newer characters. Black Panther and Spider-Man sell out on their own.

    If it wasn't for the new heroes and evolution of the later heroes I probably would have already dipped on the MCU.

    Outside of Black Widow, the other original heroes had their overarching stories. I guess Hawkeye didn't, but no one's clamoring for a Hawkeye movie. Give Antman his 3rd movie. Doctor Strange his sequel. BP 2. Captain Marvel 2. Blade. The Eternals.

    Then Marvel's going to redo the X-men. Than the Fantastic Four. Throw in a lesser hero with tons of potential like Dark Hawk. Then introduce Spectrum.


    Marvel literally has a gold mine of an IP, and Disney knows how to play it safe but still hit home runs. I wouldn't be concerned.


    Lastly, not all the phase one movies were smash hits either. Some were so-so, but we don't deride them, so we've got to keep that in perspective. And honestly, not all the films have aged well either, but there is so much goodwill towards the MCU, Disney, and the journey they've taken us all on, I think it's collectively overlooked.
    Absolutely, because Marvel didn't have the crutch of the X-Men they were forced to think out the box. I mean Guardians of the Galaxy is a household name! Just sit with that a little bit, if you would have told me as a young kid that Star-Lord would be one of the most popular comic characters I would have spit out my chocolate milk.

    I really hope that they continue to mine obscure characters and really bring them to the forefront and use the built up goodwill to introduce real progressive characters like America Chavez, Ms. Marvel, and the Young Avengers - I would lose my absolute shit, if that were to happen

  11. #11
    Mighty Member LordMikel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    Absolutely, because Marvel didn't have the crutch of the X-Men they were forced to think out the box. I mean Guardians of the Galaxy is a household name! Just sit with that a little bit, if you would have told me as a young kid that Star-Lord would be one of the most popular comic characters I would have spit out my chocolate milk.

    I really hope that they continue to mine obscure characters and really bring them to the forefront and use the built up goodwill to introduce real progressive characters like America Chavez, Ms. Marvel, and the Young Avengers - I would lose my absolute shit, if that were to happen
    Young Avengers would be awesome, Wiccan and Iron Lad are problem characters though. Although maybe Wiccan was a test tube baby, made from Scarlet witch's DNA without her knowledge? With Iron Lad, we don't have Kang. We do have Ultron though, perhaps some sub program created Iron Lad.
    I think restorative nostalgia is the number one issue with comic book fans.
    A fine distinction between two types of Nostalgia:

    Reflective Nostalgia allows us to savor our memories but accepts that they are in the past
    Restorative Nostalgia pushes back against the here and now, keeping us stuck trying to relive our glory days.

  12. #12
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordMikel View Post
    Young Avengers would be awesome, Wiccan and Iron Lad are problem characters though. Although maybe Wiccan was a test tube baby, made from Scarlet witch's DNA without her knowledge? With Iron Lad, we don't have Kang. We do have Ultron though, perhaps some sub program created Iron Lad.
    ohh great idea! Having Iron Lad as Ultron would be super cool! But we could simply introduce Iron Lad as Kang in a couple of lines and maybe in a future FF movie it can be explored

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
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    Really looking forward to those guys

    1-Moon Knight
    2-Black Widow, Falcon, Winter Soldier
    3-Shang Chi
    4-Blade, Doctor Strange 2
    5-She-Hulk

    Don't care for Eternals, mutants or Fantastic Four. Maybe COVID19 will lead to more character focused, smaller scale and budget movies
    Last edited by batnbreakfast; 08-06-2020 at 01:44 AM.

  14. #14
    Fantastic Member PhoenixThanos's Avatar
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    I think the MCU will be fine but it won't be as good without the main Avengers.
    Alot of the upcoming movie changes failed miserably in the comics.
    I really wanted the Avengers v the X-Men but without the original Avengers it will never be as appealing.
    I enjoy anything Marvel cosmic, especially Thanos or Dark Phoenix related, loved the original Uncanny Avengers series.

    (Marvel/DC fan for 42+ years)

  15. #15
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    Honestly, I can’t really say.

    People have developed an attachment to the original Avengers because they’ve been around for a number of years and they’re the first. And it seems that Marvel is “closing down” the universe after Endgame (although that obviously isn’t the case) so there could be some loss of interest there.

    Marvel should understand and not make the mistake the Star Wars guys made; people love the MCU because of the characters and not just because of “brand loyalty”. How Feige and co handle this in the next phase will be interesting to see.
    "Obviously not all conservatives are racists/bigots but all racists/bigots claim to be conservative"- Unknown

    RIP Chadwick Boseman.

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