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  1. #16
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    What does survive mean? Are they going to keep on making movies? Yes. Are the movies going to be popular? Yes. Is the MCU going to be cultural phenomenon always ? Things fall out of extreme popularity see America Idol, Walking Dead, The entire sport of Horse Racing or Boxing,etc but even when something stop being extremely popular, It will be very popular aka Star Wars and previous mention Walking Dead both of those things are clearly not as popular as before but they are more popular than most things. I think that answer where the OP was going with the question.

    Now let start with the other part of this the original Avengers weren't that popular to begin with none of them represent marvel "cool" heroes so to speak. They are recognizable and have level of popularity but they aren't what Superman,Batman,Wonder Woman and Spiderman are Now they became Iconic thanks the MCU run but we are talking about middle tier characters in terms of known comic book characters. This equivalent of me asking right now how is the DCEU going to survive without Flash,Green Lantern, Green Arrow,Black Lighting and Aquaman. And before someone says Aquaman made a 1 billion dollars understand he was in the same exact place as Cap,Iron Man,Thor,Black Widow pre MCU. The people who people feel are so essential were built into that and it was not preexisting thing.

    The big point is movies both Marvel and DC have for general public move certain characters from relatively popular to bonifide stars. It did for the first generation characters like Iron Man and company and we have seen already work Black Panther and Captain Marvel. Marvel has already enough firepower to keep the wave going for awhile and if for some reason those guys keep the general public then Marvel has the plan B of Spiderman, Hulk, Wolverine, Storm, Punisher, Daredevil, Mr Fantastic, Thing, Deadpool, Blade aka Characters some of who are arguably more popular than Avengers characters being phased out. MCU will be okay

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    What do you mean by 'survive'?

    Do you mean financially, as a mainstay in popular culture, a thing beloved by fans, or a mix of all three?

    In my opinion, Feige and his team seem to have the talent of being able to do things people say they can't do. Twelve years ago I don't think anyone thought the MCU would be what it is now. We only look at the original Avengers as these things we know, love and need more of because of the work that was put into making them great characters and have good movies. I have no doubt in my mind that Marvel can do the same thing with these new crop of characters.

    It's up to the fans to move on, in my opinion. The original Avengers as a singular entity aren't coming back, and I personally don't think they should. Now I'm not a Star Wars fan and I don't want to start anything, but I think a big problem that franchise and fanbase has is that the fans are overly nostalgic, and the filmmakers try to appeal to that nostalgia. But then when that doesn't go well the fans have an outrage. It's a vicious cycle.

    I hope Feige is smart enough to avoid that. They have an opportunity now to gain new fans while still being fresh in the current audience's subconscious. They should move on completely from the Infinity Saga and tell new stories in new ways.

  3. #18
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    Six months ago my answer to this question would have been yes, of course it will survive. I mean, I say this as a huge Cap fan. Steve Rogers is my favorite character and while I will miss Chris Evans playing him, A LOT, I was really looking forward to seeing Mahershala Ali play Blade and that Eternals cast, wow. Was really looking forward to that film, too. But now I’m not sure it will survive, at least not with its previous popularity, and it has nothing to do with characters being retired. Disney is charging $30 for the live action Mulan on pay-per-view. Meanwhile AMC, the largest theater chain in the US, is teetering on bankruptcy and would be gone already if not for the bail-out. So the future of the MCU is contingent on whether fans would be willing to fork over $30 to watch a film, in their home, extra, over what they’re already paying for Disney+ (assuming theaters don’t survive... which, even IF they’re allowed to reopen they’ll have to include new safety methods, which means less seats being sold to observe social distancing). After a pandemic. Wherein the unemployment rate is the highest it’s ever been. I’d be willing to bet a lot less people are going to be willing to do that, particularly for characters, as you’ve pointed out, they don’t yet know.

  4. #19
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabare View Post
    Outside of Black Widow, the other original heroes had their overarching stories. I guess Hawkeye didn't, but no one's clamoring for a Hawkeye movie. Give Antman his 3rd movie. Doctor Strange his sequel. BP 2. Captain Marvel 2. Blade. The Eternals.

    Then Marvel's going to redo the X-men. Than the Fantastic Four. Throw in a lesser hero with tons of potential like Dark Hawk. Then introduce Spectrum.
    Monica Rambeau has already been introduced, in Captain Marvel. She was just a kid, but that film was 1990s period piece, so she'll be an adult in the sequel, probably with her powers.

    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    I really hope that they continue to mine obscure characters and really bring them to the forefront and use the built up goodwill to introduce real progressive characters like America Chavez, Ms. Marvel, and the Young Avengers - I would lose my absolute ****, if that were to happen
    Ms. Marvel is getting her own Disney+ show.
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  5. #20
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    I feel like relying on the Avengers as the mainline element isn't the way from this point on. Young Avengers/Champions/Avengers Academy, Fantastic Four, X-Men, Midnight Sons, whatever is required to get Annihilation on screen, imo these should be the driving forces of the MCU until they feel like it has been long enough for them to recast or reboot- which is inevitable. I'm not saying the Avengers should just be dropped now, but I do think the shouldn't be the dead center of the MCU anymore. I think whatever is dead center should be shuffled out after 20+ movies.

  6. #21

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    I'm sure they will be fine. They will just get new characters to replace them.

  7. #22
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    Yes. They can survive. The characters they are using are good characters. Sometimes they get bad stories. But if you track the bad stories the original MCU Avengers have had over the last sixty years you wouldn’t be asking this question.

    Just don’t expect Endgame box office nor Endgame’s budget.

  8. #23
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    People were doubting the MCU for not having the X-Men, so I think they'll be just fine as long as they continue to have Feige steer the ship.
    This.

    Marvel's success really can't be understated. What they've accomplished is unprecedented and the level of success they've had is ridiculous. Out of what, about two dozen movies, they've had maybe one actual, legit failure, in Incredible Hulk? Now, I dislike my fair share of MCU films, and not all of them did as well as expected, but I don't think any have been actual flops except for maybe Hulk...way back in 2008.

    I don't think there's been a franchise in film that even comes close to this level of success. And they've done it without access to their biggest and most famous IP's like the X-Men, FF, and (for quite a long time) Spidey. All that success, and it was done with B-list properties or worse, some of which even comic fans had no faith in.

    The MCU will survive without Iron Man and the other original Avengers. The real question is whether it'll survive without Fiege.

    Now, whether the pandemic will prove to be a insurmountable problem.....time will tell, I guess. But movies have survived world wars and economic collapses, I figure they'll survive this. Individual companies might not, but movies as a whole? They'll live through it.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    People were doubting the MCU for not having the X-Men, so I think they'll be just fine as long as they continue to have Feige steer the ship.
    Yup. ^This^. Iron Man was by no means a sure bet a long time back. What happens when Feige is no longer directly involved will be the acid test.

  10. #25
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    They will but I'll imagine that the gulf between hardcore comic fans and casual audiences will widen. As the MCU continues to cash in on secondary properties like Black Panther, Captain Marvel, and Shang Chi I could definitely see a future where long time readers get turned off by the lack of perceived A-list properties like Iron Man. And with the rising wave of anti-Disney sentiment fueled by the culture wars I think it's quite likely there will be more than a handful of long time Marvel supporters losing interest if not actively campaigning for the MCU to fail.

    But with access to the X-Men, FF, and a wide catalog of heroes whose stories are told in films of decent to great quality, I think the MCU will be just fine. The real issue is whether they'll be as profitable in the wake of a global pandemic that hits theaters hard and leaves large portions of their audience unemployed. But I think the superhero genre is here to stay and that Marvel will continue to be the standard every cinematic universe tries to reach for decades to come. Even if things get downsized and movies perhaps are relegated to streaming.

  11. #26
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Hell, Iron Man wasn't perceived as an A-list property until the MCU in the first place. And there are already people campaigning for the MCU to fail; trying to boycott Black Panther and Captain Marvel, etc.

    The last time we had an Iron Man film was....2013? Tony showed up in other films since then so he was still around, but it's been a long damn time since an Iron Man movie came out.

    MCU is not only still going, but is making more money than it did ten years ago, and expanding into new formats. And now they have the rights to the mutants and FF.

    I probably sound like a MCU cheer leader, which is funny because I think a lot of their films are too formulaic and are mostly just "empty calorie" popcorn flicks, but I really don't get why people are worried about it. When Fiege leaves, that'll be a time to worry about the future but until then I think the MCU will just continue to improve, expand, and will remain a monolith of pop culture.

    Ten years from now, we might be laughing about how Shang Chi was once considered a Z-list character, and it'll boggle the minds of younger fans to think that he was ever anything but a headliner.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    Six months ago my answer to this question would have been yes, of course it will survive. I mean, I say this as a huge Cap fan. Steve Rogers is my favorite character and while I will miss Chris Evans playing him, A LOT, I was really looking forward to seeing Mahershala Ali play Blade and that Eternals cast, wow. Was really looking forward to that film, too. But now I’m not sure it will survive, at least not with its previous popularity, and it has nothing to do with characters being retired. Disney is charging $30 for the live action Mulan on pay-per-view. Meanwhile AMC, the largest theater chain in the US, is teetering on bankruptcy and would be gone already if not for the bail-out. So the future of the MCU is contingent on whether fans would be willing to fork over $30 to watch a film, in their home, extra, over what they’re already paying for Disney+ (assuming theaters don’t survive... which, even IF they’re allowed to reopen they’ll have to include new safety methods, which means less seats being sold to observe social distancing). After a pandemic. Wherein the unemployment rate is the highest it’s ever been. I’d be willing to bet a lot less people are going to be willing to do that, particularly for characters, as you’ve pointed out, they don’t yet know.
    This is hitting the nail on the head, yeah.

    I mean the MCU has bigger problems than moving on without "the original Avengers" at present. The lack of disposable income among paying audiences is going to be the big one going forward, and not just for MCU or Disney. All of their TV shows on Disney Plus were in mid-production when the Pandemic hit, which meant that it's not in any position to be done remotely (like The Eternals apparently is). The other movies announced are now farther away from production, so they have a backlog to get past before going forward. So the question of continuing without the original Avengers is a little quaint.

    There's also the issue whether the audience will be in the mood for superhero movies after going through what is without question a dark period of history. Remember how superhero comics lost popularity after World War II? That might happen too. The first MCU movie, Iron Man 2007 came out the year of Obama's election and the optimism of Obama's 8 years was mirrored in the rise of the MCU from 2008-2016, and even in the first three years of the Trump presidency, the MCU offered a form of escapism and catharsis against Trump's America with Black Panther, Captain Marvel. To some extent, even Infinity War and Endgame reflected the tragic despair people felt when Trump got elected. (Although Logan, which inspired those films, did that even better). But the Pandemic happened and then the George Floyd protests and people don't want a simple return to the Obama years, they want something better to come afterwards. So an entirely new situation has come into play going forward.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Now, whether the pandemic will prove to be a insurmountable problem.....time will tell, I guess. But movies have survived world wars and economic collapses, I figure they'll survive this.
    Neither World War I or World War II was fought extensively on American soil. So those war years didn't pose a significant challenge to US Cinemas (European and Japanese Cinemas on the other hand...). As for economic collapses, the movie business survived the Great Depression and was a growth industry in that decade for one reason and one reason only...It was cheap. Movies in the 30s were cheaper by a magnitude greater, even accounting for inflation, compared to the streaming services today, leave alone a visit to the multiplex.

    The Pandemic of 2020 is not to be compared to anything that came before. The lessons learned before might not be applicable to the current situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    What happens when Feige is no longer directly involved will be the acid test.
    I think people are overestimating Feige a little bit. He's done a wonderful job producing the MCU and putting together and combining the right team of writers, directors, crew, cast and so on. But if you look at Feige's career, I don't know if you can entirely say that Feige is a complete producer in terms of acquiring important professional skills and so on.

    If you look at his credits, Feige has never produced a single non-superhero movie or TV show. He's never had the aura of becoming a producer on his own, on an original story and unknown property. I wouldn't say Feige's work as a producer hasn't had risks, but in general, you would say on balance that Feige's career is making success of sure things, i.e. pre-established IP and stories, and generating marketing enthusiasm and hype around it. As such he's never really known failure. His career has been up-and-up. Now a lot of people will say "not knowing failure" and think "that's because he's an awesome producer" but what that means in fact is that Feige doesn't have skills on knowing what to do when you face a setback, when you come out of a low point, when you turn things around, when you have to shift gears based on the mood of society. Feige's done well when the movie industry and society and audience trends worked in his favor, but what happens when they don't work in his favor, what skills and experiences can he conjure to provide ideas on how to turn things around?

    Remember that the major decisions on the MCU, or the conditions that led to its formation wasn't Feige's doing. It was the success of Sam Raimi's Spider-Man movies that provided a new lease of life for Marvel and led to the first wave of Marvel licenses. It was David Maisel who in response to that suggested that Marvel dam up licenses and create their own studios and make their movies, and it was Maisel who authorized and produced, with Lionsgate, many animated movies as spec work for future movies.

  13. #28
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    One thing I will say is that casting may be more important than ever for the MCU. Downey was yesterday's talent when cast, and while Evans was less so, he was still not a big timer.

    There will be pressure to get big names, whether they fit or not. Feige, et al. have proven they can handle every part of bringing (at least, a version of) The Marvel Universe to the screen. If they or their successors can stick to finding actors that fit the roles, instead of remaking characters for actors, it should be well.

    Note: I know MCU Stark is more Downey than Comics Stark. However, early on Feige's team realized they'd need a Howard Hughes for today, rather than the model Lee, et al. used in 1962. Looking at people like Musk and Jobs provided a template that fit Downey well.

  14. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    There's also the issue whether the audience will be in the mood for superhero movies after going through what is without question a dark period of history. Remember how superhero comics lost popularity after World War II? That might happen too. The first MCU movie, Iron Man 2007 came out the year of Obama's election and the optimism of Obama's 8 years was mirrored in the rise of the MCU from 2008-2016, and even in the first three years of the Trump presidency, the MCU offered a form of escapism and catharsis against Trump's America with Black Panther, Captain Marvel. To some extent, even Infinity War and Endgame reflected the tragic despair people felt when Trump got elected. (Although Logan, which inspired those films, did that even better). But the Pandemic happened and then the George Floyd protests and people don't want a simple return to the Obama years, they want something better to come afterwards. So an entirely new situation has come into play going forward.
    First, it's impossible that Logan inspired Infinity War because filming of the latter started in January 2017 and therefore at a moment Logan wasn't even released. So the screenplay had to be finished even earlier than 2017.

    Second, the Avengers movies make more money in foreign markets than in the US, if we look at Endgame US audiences were responsible for only about 30% of the total box office. So your theory about the presidency having a big effect on the success of these movies is rather flawed unless you think people in China or Europe care about who the current US president is when they decide to watch a movie.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    One thing I will say is that casting may be more important than ever for the MCU. Downey was yesterday's talent when cast, and while Evans was less so, he was still not a big timer.

    There will be pressure to get big names, whether they fit or not. Feige, et al. have proven they can handle every part of bringing (at least, a version of) The Marvel Universe to the screen. If they or their successors can stick to finding actors that fit the roles, instead of remaking characters for actors, it should be well.
    The problem is that thanks to the decline of the star system there aren't any big names anymore. Not really. The biggest movie stars that are still standing are Leonardo DiCaprio, Tom Cruise, Tom Hanks. You can add in Keanu Reeves for a fourth. Among actresses that number is even smaller (because sexism). Charlize Theron is right now maybe the biggest actress. Those are probably the only names who can still sell a movie on star power and make a ton of movie with their name on the poster. Most of the rest are character actors and stars on TV and streaming respectively.

    Thanks to the pandemic, it'll be harder to find movie stars for a while. Tom Cruise is probably not the guy who will do superhero movies. His current ambition is to make a movie in space, i.e. actual literal space and not CGI background like a normal person. Tom Hanks is a little too old and he's too good and too big to be a supporting character. DiCaprio probably will do all he can to avoid making superhero movies on account of his artistic ambitions, and he's also in his 40s (though he looks a lot younger than his age).

    Anyway I don't think the MCU should have problems with casting going forward. All said and done, the MCU is better prepared to make a comeback and recovery than anyone else. They have deeper pockets after all.

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