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  1. #1
    Spectacular Member Fanto.mx's Avatar
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    Default Fantomex Appreciation 2020

    With Giant-Size Fantomex coming out, it's time for a Fantomex thread!

    I do want to dig into the fun and beauty of the book (and character) but right now I have one major question:

    How is Fantomex alive? The book skips over the whole possessed-by-Xavier-and-then-shot-in-the-head-and-therefore-apparently-dead part. And there are indications in the book that it wasn't The Five, since he's sitting outside the gate when the other X-Men arrive, and that's ignoring the fact that he's not really a mutant at all.

    Big Question #2: Where's EVA?

  2. #2
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    I mean, he is kind of a mutant as much as he isn't one. So, it's not all that feasible but the Five resurrected him or that Healer fixed his body after Xavier's assassination and that allowed his mind to return to his own body. What I'm wondering about is how much of the ten years later stuff was just implanted memories between him and Ultimaton? Probably not the scene of babies and not what we saw in New X-Men, but everything in between? Fantomex was born literally the first issue we saw him and given that he's Weapon 13, he couldn't have been with the Howling Commandos given that scene is anywhere between the 1940s-1970s and Logan didn't become Weapon X until after that and he couldn't have been with the Inner Circle because that incarnation of it - with Wyngarde and all - wouldn't have been a thing yet. It has to be a dream, right? That's what his whole what is real conversation with the scientist was about?

  3. #3
    Mighty Member jpmst17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drexelhand View Post
    I mean, he is kind of a mutant as much as he isn't one. So, it's not all that feasible but the Five resurrected him or that Healer fixed his body after Xavier's assassination and that allowed his mind to return to his own body. What I'm wondering about is how much of the ten years later stuff was just implanted memories between him and Ultimaton? Probably not the scene of babies and not what we saw in New X-Men, but everything in between? Fantomex was born literally the first issue we saw him and given that he's Weapon 13, he couldn't have been with the Howling Commandos given that scene is anywhere between the 1940s-1970s and Logan didn't become Weapon X until after that and he couldn't have been with the Inner Circle because that incarnation of it - with Wyngarde and all - wouldn't have been a thing yet. It has to be a dream, right? That's what his whole what is real conversation with the scientist was about?
    I have no idea what is real and what isn't in the book. I'm just glad to have him back. This was a fun read, and it really highlights what a user Fantomex is. Does he care about anyone but himself?

  4. #4
    Fantastic Member Captain Buttocks's Avatar
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    I suppose when it comes to Fantomex I always enjoy the "unreliable narrator" trope played up to absurd levels. During Morrison's issues it felt like an affectonate piss-take of the X-Men's history, but subsequent authors have either not understood or actively played with his supposed history, which adds to the mystique.

    I must however add that the mini-series Fantomex MAX is utter, utter bobbins.

  5. #5
    Y'know. Pav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Buttocks View Post
    I suppose when it comes to Fantomex I always enjoy the "unreliable narrator" trope played up to absurd levels. During Morrison's issues it felt like an affectonate piss-take of the X-Men's history, but subsequent authors have either not understood or actively played with his supposed history, which adds to the mystique.

    I must however add that the mini-series Fantomex MAX is utter, utter bobbins.
    When we see depictions of his past, the question becomes whether what we're seeing is the "objective" truth from the point of the storyteller or a recollection on the part of Fantomex, who has an incredibly unreliable perspective given the circumstances of his creation.

    Regarding his status as a mutant -- isn't E.V.A. supposed to be his mutation? Not that that necessarily clears up his status, considering she's been shown to be a sentient, independent creature herself.

    I haven't read that recent run with "X" -- is it worth a look?

    -Pav, who wonders if Hickman will bring in Sublime at some point...
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  6. #6
    Fantastic Member Technopriest's Avatar
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    I said this in another thread, but bears repeating. Everything about Fantomex is a lie, the mansion, the mother, the thieving background. Facto came into the real world in the same issue that he debuted in, and then used his power of misdirection on Jean and Xavier. Heck, Morrison was playing tricks on the readers as well, presenting on page all the stuff that wasn’t real about him, basically Fanto was tricking the other characters AND the readers as well. Subsequent writers either didn’t understand the issue or just plain ignored it, but Fanto shouldn’t have a real background past the moment in which he was born into the real world.

  7. #7
    Spectacular Member Fanto.mx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drexelhand View Post
    I mean, he is kind of a mutant as much as he isn't one. So, it's not all that feasible but the Five resurrected him or that Healer fixed his body after Xavier's assassination and that allowed his mind to return to his own body. What I'm wondering about is how much of the ten years later stuff was just implanted memories between him and Ultimaton? Probably not the scene of babies and not what we saw in New X-Men, but everything in between? Fantomex was born literally the first issue we saw him and given that he's Weapon 13, he couldn't have been with the Howling Commandos given that scene is anywhere between the 1940s-1970s and Logan didn't become Weapon X until after that and he couldn't have been with the Inner Circle because that incarnation of it - with Wyngarde and all - wouldn't have been a thing yet. It has to be a dream, right? That's what his whole what is real conversation with the scientist was about?

    I had taken it all as time f*ckery due to The World being essentially all about time f*ckery, but it would be interesting if this is all new memories, possibly created by Xavier, as some sort of side plan. Xavier is nothing if not a side planner.

    But if that's the case, does that mean only the very end bit and the bits that happened in other books are real?

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    I have done a The World reread after the (amazing) Giant Size issue with some notes trying to connect it all together. I'll post it later.

    Main thing that I got out of it is that Hickman will probably only factor in Morrison's version and ignore the rest.

  9. #9
    Spectacular Member Fanto.mx's Avatar
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    We did get moments set in all of the Fantomex runs so far, though, even including the unfortunate red-and-white run. Though correct me if I'm wrong, the only part of the book that has explicitly taken place in other books is the bit with Wolverine and Cyclops in the Hellfire Club, right?

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanto.mx View Post
    We did get moments set in all of the Fantomex runs so far, though, even including the unfortunate red-and-white run. Though correct me if I'm wrong, the only part of the book that has explicitly taken place in other books is the bit with Wolverine and Cyclops in the Hellfire Club, right?
    Yes. I think that Remender will be ignored since it set Fanto as half mutant and half sentinel while Hickman said he's not a mutant specifically, like Morrison intended.

    The timeline for last issue was all messed up though.

  11. #11
    Spectacular Member Fanto.mx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    Yes. I think that Remender will be ignored since it set Fanto as half mutant and half sentinel while Hickman said he's not a mutant specifically, like Morrison intended.

    The timeline for last issue was all messed up though.
    This is Morrison:




    Last edited by Fanto.mx; 08-08-2020 at 12:47 PM.

  12. #12
    Mighty Member gambitxremy's Avatar
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    Who is fantomex a clone of

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gambitxremy View Post
    Who is fantomex a clone of
    Xavier? That would be interesting.

  14. #14
    Fantastic Member Technopriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    Yes. I think that Remender will be ignored since it set Fanto as half mutant and half sentinel while Hickman said he's not a mutant specifically, like Morrison intended.

    The timeline for last issue was all messed up though.
    Oh, pease let this be true. I know Remender version has its fans, but it was clear from the beginning to me he actually understood very little of what Morrison intended. Huge fan of the character as originally presented, but Remender and other writers really didn’t understand the issue were he was introduced at all (Sean McKeever made similar mistakes with the character in the Mystique series).
    Last edited by Technopriest; 08-10-2020 at 02:42 AM.

  15. #15
    Fantastic Member Technopriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Buttocks View Post
    I suppose when it comes to Fantomex I always enjoy the "unreliable narrator" trope played up to absurd levels. During Morrison's issues it felt like an affectonate piss-take of the X-Men's history, but subsequent authors have either not understood or actively played with his supposed history, which adds to the mystique.

    I must however add that the mini-series Fantomex MAX is utter, utter bobbins.
    One of the aspects that I enjoyed the most of Morrison’s Fantomex was the unreliable narrator, where Fantomex not only was working the characters within the comics but also the readers of the comic, it was all very meta. Sadly later writers completely misunderstood that and took the stuff that were supposed to be part of his misdirection powers as actually real (like how Remender took the mother, the mansion and his background as a thief as being real when it was quite clearly laid out as part of Fantomex misdirecting Jean and Xavier).
    Last edited by Technopriest; 08-10-2020 at 09:14 AM.

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