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  1. #1
    Fantastic Member llozymandias's Avatar
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    Default Controversial Luthor opinions!

    1.) Lex Luthor (when he is a villain) is one of the most evil individuals ever. He is not a mis-guided good guy.



    2.) His motive for hating Superman is simple. Superman keeps getting in his way. That was how it was golden age & silver age. It was in the bronze age that hair loss became the motive. More recently writers decided to write him as a deluded bigot.



    3.) He is a super-genius super-scientist. Not just a guy with lots of money.
    John Martin, citizen & rightful ruler of the omniverse.

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    1.) Lex Luthor (when he is a villain) is one of the most evil individuals ever. He is not a mis-guided good guy.
    This one is very important to me.

    2.) His motive for hating Superman is simple. Superman keeps getting in his way. That was how it was golden age & silver age. It was in the bronze age that hair loss became the motive. More recently writers decided to write him as a deluded bigot.
    I don't care for hair loss or bigotry as his motive. I don't mind if envy (Superman being liked more than him) is a motive, but I'm also perfectly okay with him not caring about being liked (maybe even loving to be hated) and Superman drawing his hatred for stopping him from succeeding. But I do think he should hate Superman (while I don't care if the Joker has personal feelings about Batman at all). I do think he should want attention.

    3.) He is a super-genius super-scientist. Not just a guy with lots of money.
    I'm okay with him being both. I've before made the "evil Elon Musk" comment. Tech company, but a lot work from engineers. A lot of fanboys. But I'm cool with flatout scientist, too.

    I do think he should be petty, the kind of guy who keeps a enemies list. Think of Nixon's, and definitely include those who slighted him personally. Or of during Death/Reign (can't recall which) where he murdered his martial arts instructor because she dismissed him, saying he didn't have his head in the game. He should not be smooth and debonair - he may be able to fake it to those who don't know him well, but those with a longer history should know how nasty and erratic he can be. His emotions absolutely should get in his way sometimes.

  3. #3
    Fantastic Member llozymandias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    This one is very important to me.

    I don't care for hair loss or bigotry as his motive. I don't mind if envy (Superman being liked more than him) is a motive, but I'm also perfectly okay with him not caring about being liked (maybe even loving to be hated) and Superman drawing his hatred for stopping him from succeeding. But I do think he should hate Superman (while I don't care if the Joker has personal feelings about Batman at all). I do think he should want attention.

    I'm okay with him being both. I've before made the "evil Elon Musk" comment. Tech company, but a lot work from engineers. A lot of fanboys. But I'm cool with flatout scientist, too.

    I do think he should be petty, the kind of guy who keeps a enemies list. Think of Nixon's, and definitely include those who slighted him personally. Or of during Death/Reign (can't recall which) where he murdered his martial arts instructor because she dismissed him, saying he didn't have his head in the game. He should not be smooth and debonair - he may be able to fake it to those who don't know him well, but those with a longer history should know how nasty and erratic he can be. His emotions absolutely should get in his way sometimes.


    Hair loss does not work as the motive. if Lex were that upset about being bad, He would cure it super-easy. A few days research & experiments. Properly test the result, to make sure it's safe. Then he uses it. Within a few days/weeks he has hair again. Bigotry does not work. Because bigotry is a sign of a small mind.



    The only way someone like Lex might be actually poor, would be if they didn't want to be rich. If Lex were real & applied any of his genius to aquisition of wealth, very shortly he would make Mansa Musa look like he was dirt poor.
    John Martin, citizen & rightful ruler of the omniverse.

  4. #4

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    Generally I don’t think he should have any history with the town of Smallville or having ever been friends with Clark Kent. I don’t think it adds anything to their relationship. Not saying there haven't been good stories or versions that have used that backstory. But I think Lex and Superman dynamic is supposed to be less personal than some other notable comic book rivalries. It’s a hatred born of inherent jealousy and envy not a a tragic friendship turned sour.
    Last edited by OpaqueGiraffe17; 10-13-2020 at 07:10 PM.

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member Riv86672's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by llozymandias View Post
    Lex Luthor (when he is a villain) is one of the most evil individuals ever. He is not a mis-guided good guy.
    ^^^Agreed. And hes always a villain.

    Quote Originally Posted by llozymandias View Post
    His motive for hating Superman is simple. Superman keeps getting in his way.
    ^^^I can work w. that. Luthor was King Shit in Metropolis before Superman showed up and he resents him. The anti alien thing is just a tool.

    Quote Originally Posted by llozymandias View Post
    He is a super-genius super-scientist. Not just a guy with lots of money.
    ^^^I like him as both. Money is the one super power Luthor has over Supes, and its a good one to have, as he can use it to attack Supes in pretty much any manner a writer cares to imagine.

  6. #6
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    1) Luthor is not a very good villain in general. And certainly not a good one for Superman. Brainiac, Bizarro, Mr. Mxyzsptlk, Darkseid are all better Superman villains than him.

    2) To the extent Luthor is convincing as a villain, it's as the Silver Age Mad Scientist guy and not corporate owner Lex.

    3) He should be given a "death" and benched for two-three years (at minimum) or five years (ideally) so that writers can develop other rogues.

    4) Luthor should not appear in any Superman movie for at least three more films.

    5) Gene Hackman is a great actor, but his Luthor sucks. Clancy Brown's VO as Lex is the one true Luthor.

    6) Humanist Luthor is a garbage interpretation, and an insult to humanism.

  7. #7
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    He should not be the human half of Conner's DNA.

    He has never been portrayed great in any film. Been portrayed by great actors but never was a great character.

    The Lex Luthor II storyline is underrated. In fact, I wouldn't mind a long term change that again retired the baldness for a good chunk of time and went with that long red hair and beard.

    He should be nearly 100% a sociopath, with the lone exception of the city itself. Not the people that make up the city, but the construct of it, as he considers it his and an extension of him.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 08-06-2020 at 06:54 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

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  8. #8
    Astonishing Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OpaqueGiraffe17 View Post
    Generally I don’t think he should have any history with the town of Smallville or having ever been friends with Clark Kent. I don’t think it adds anything to their relationship. Not saying there having been good stories or versions that have used that backstory. But I think Lex and Superman dynamic is supposed to be less personal than some other notable comic book rivalries. It’s a hatred born of inherent jealousy and envy not a a tragic friendship turned sour.
    I agree, I know the concept probably long pre-dates stuff like it but Lex and Superman being ex-friends from childhood is too much like fanfic material for me.

  9. #9
    Fantastic Member witchboy's Avatar
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    It always did seem silly that Lex didn't cure his baldness if it bothered him, and that that was the source of his lifelong hatred of Superman.
    I have heard it suggested that the chemicals that made him lose his hair made him unbalanced and/or evil. It does make sense given the context of the story even though I don't like Lex losing the agency of his choices there.
    I think Lex losing Adora, Lex Jr and Lexor was a great way to revive the character. That their deaths were all his own fault but he has to blame Superman because he can't deal with it if it's his own fault is a very human thing to do. It does give him some tragedy that makes him sympathetic, but also puts some real fire to his hate.
    Michael Rosenberg was the best Lex, giving the character so much range, passion. He had eight seasons to develop the character, where we see his character have a close bond with Clark and his paranoia and fear twists him. I didn't like how the series finale kind of rebooted him with memory loss. I haven't read the season 11 comics yet, though i want to get around to it sometime.
    I do like the tall hunky clone Lex, I wouldn't be opposed to seeing that return if it made sense for the story.

  10. #10
    Fantastic Member llozymandias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    I agree, I know the concept probably long pre-dates stuff like it but Lex and Superman being ex-friends from childhood is too much like fanfic material for me.



    The thing about them being ex-friends was from the Luthor origin Jerry Siegel wrote in 1960.
    John Martin, citizen & rightful ruler of the omniverse.

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    My single most complete and encompassing controversial Luthor opinion is this: the idea that Luthor is an irredeemable bastard who is the worst humanity can offer is eye-rollingly stupid and dull to me, compared to the complexity of sympathetic, even semi-heroic Luthor, whether he's eventually fated for redemption as Elliot Maggin wrote, well-intentioned but misguided to begin with as in Young Justice animated, or just forever doomed by his own pettiness. Either way, a Luthor without redeeming characteristics is frankly, just boring as hell to me.

    Here's my old collection of Silver Age panels showcasing Luthor's better nature that I put together when I was in college, haha!

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  12. #12
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    Lex never hated Superboy/man for making him bald. Even in the original story that introduced the idea it wasn't the baldness, it was his belief that Superboy had done it deliberately. And that was the first in a long string of issues. That story showed Lex coming up with other ideas to improve life in Smallville only for each of those ideas to go badly with Superboy saving the day. In the span of a few weeks it seemed everything went wrong for Lex and every time there was Superboy right in the middle. It may have started out as a childish grudge, but ot was like a rolling stone with each battle just making Lex angrier and more resentful.

    Maggin later added in that the experiment that Superboy saved Lex from was creating life. Superboy "killed" something Lex's creation. Not sure I completely buy this, but it was more than losing a few hair follicles.

  13. #13
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    A completely evil Luthor isn't very compelling to me. There needs to be some vestiges of humanity left in him underneath the raging ego and and the ruthless sociopath. Otherwise, he's just Earthbound Darkseid.

    I think the corporate titan works very well for the character, but I also love him as the world's most wanted man.

    He must also be indisputably the smartest man on the planet, and one of the smartest in the whole universe.

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    The fact that DC can't seem to pick a reason why Luthor hates Superman so much and stick with it indicates he's not a very good villain. Or at least not worthy of "arch nemesis" status. It just seems like DC needs him to be Superman's main villain but no one can really decide why. He's just "evil smart guy". They need that brains vs. brawn dynamic but even with that, Luthor isn't even the best choice, Brainiac is. He also has a direct connection to Krypton in a way Luthor doesn't. In a lot of ways, Luthor is like J. Jonah Jameson for Spiderman. They can't decide why he hates Spiderman so much other than it just makes good ad copy. The alien bigotry thing makes the most sense in that it at least is a motivation of some kind. And even then you don't need a connection to Smallville or Clark or anything else. Even the movies can't seem to figure out why Luthor hates him so much. Neither the Donner movies nor the Snyder ones seemed to go into much in the way of motivation.
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  15. #15
    Fantastic Member llozymandias's Avatar
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    Lex Luthor is smarter than Kal-El. In Siegel's Luthor origin story, Lex creates a working kryptonite antidote. In that story Lex is at most in his early teens. Silver age Superman was never able to do that himself. Not even after decades of research & experiments.



    Lex Luthor is smarter than Brainiac. In the past Brainiac has expressed admiration of Lex's intellect. Brainy does not admire those who he sees as inferiors. Then there was the fact that whenever Brainiac was in fear of his existance, Lex was his go to guy.
    Last edited by llozymandias; 08-07-2020 at 08:06 AM.
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