Page 2 of 10 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 145
  1. #16
    Fantastic Member llozymandias's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    444

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Clark View Post
    Lex never hated Superboy/man for making him bald. Even in the original story that introduced the idea it wasn't the baldness, it was his belief that Superboy had done it deliberately. And that was the first in a long string of issues. That story showed Lex coming up with other ideas to improve life in Smallville only for each of those ideas to go badly with Superboy saving the day. In the span of a few weeks it seemed everything went wrong for Lex and every time there was Superboy right in the middle. It may have started out as a childish grudge, but ot was like a rolling stone with each battle just making Lex angrier and more resentful.

    Maggin later added in that the experiment that Superboy saved Lex from was creating life. Superboy "killed" something Lex's creation. Not sure I completely buy this, but it was more than losing a few hair follicles.




    Add in Lex's sister Lena & the backstory Siegel gave her. In my mind i see Lex & Superboy as bffs for about 1-3 years. They have many adventures together. The problem is that too many treat Lex as nothing more than Superboy's sidekick.
    John Martin, citizen & rightful ruler of the omniverse.

  2. #17
    Ultimate Member Gaius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Occupied Klendathu
    Posts
    12,814

    Default

    Guess a Lex-related controversial or unpopular opinion I have is I don't think Hackman is a bad Luthor. He's not like the one in the comics at the time but I thought he was good as a wannabe James Bond villain conman. Though like with Terrance Stamp and Zod, it's probably more Hackman doing a lot with a role that doesn't have much to it on paper.

  3. #18
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    9,358

    Default

    Here's another one.

    Elliot Magin's Luthor sucks and is a terrible take on the character.

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member Blue22's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    2,899

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OpaqueGiraffe17 View Post
    Generally I don’t think he should have any history with the town of Smallville or having ever been friends with Clark Kent. I don’t think it adds anything to their relationship. Not saying there having been good stories or versions that have used that backstory. But I think Lex and Superman dynamic is supposed to be less personal than some other notable comic book rivalries. It’s a hatred born of inherent jealousy and envy not a a tragic friendship turned sour.
    Honestly, this is pretty much all I agree with. I always hated when certain interpretations tried to give him and Clark a past, as if they needed more reasons to be enemies. It's just as terrible as when it's done between Batman and the Joker (most notably the movie where he's the one who killed Bruce's parents)

    For the most part I think Luthor is fine as he is in most modern interpretations. The shadowy, conniving CEO who's bent on proving why the world doesn't need Superman or any of his associates. Even if that means being the one who puts them all down.

    I always kinda liked that angle for Luthor. He's the guy who's the villain because he's so desperate for the glory of being the hero. He genuinely cares about the world and his city. But he's also a narcissistic sociopath who thinks he's better than everyone and always knows what's best.

    So even though I do prefer him as a villain, I guess my unpopular opinion is that I actually really liked his stint as an actual hero during Rebirth. If that had been the new status quo for him, I wouldn't have really been upset.

  5. #20
    Superfan Through The Ages BBally's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Cairo, Egypt
    Posts
    837

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    My single most complete and encompassing controversial Luthor opinion is this: the idea that Luthor is an irredeemable bastard who is the worst humanity can offer is eye-rollingly stupid and dull to me, compared to the complexity of sympathetic, even semi-heroic Luthor, whether he's eventually fated for redemption as Elliot Maggin wrote, well-intentioned but misguided to begin with as in Young Justice animated, or just forever doomed by his own pettiness. Either way, a Luthor without redeeming characteristics is frankly, just boring as hell to me.

    Here's my old collection of Silver Age panels showcasing Luthor's better nature that I put together when I was in college, haha!

    This, I agree with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Clark View Post
    Lex never hated Superboy/man for making him bald. Even in the original story that introduced the idea it wasn't the baldness, it was his belief that Superboy had done it deliberately. And that was the first in a long string of issues. That story showed Lex coming up with other ideas to improve life in Smallville only for each of those ideas to go badly with Superboy saving the day. In the span of a few weeks it seemed everything went wrong for Lex and every time there was Superboy right in the middle. It may have started out as a childish grudge, but ot was like a rolling stone with each battle just making Lex angrier and more resentful.

    Maggin later added in that the experiment that Superboy saved Lex from was creating life. Superboy "killed" something Lex's creation. Not sure I completely buy this, but it was more than losing a few hair follicles.
    People tend to forget that part.

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Here's another one.

    Elliot Magin's Luthor sucks and is a terrible take on the character.
    Them's fighting words, sir.
    Last edited by BBally; 08-07-2020 at 04:14 PM.
    No matter how many reboots, new origins, reinterpretations or suit redesigns. In the end, he will always be SUPERMAN

    Credit for avatar goes to zclark

  6. #21
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Metropolis USA
    Posts
    7,186

    Default

    The only good version of Luthor in Smallville is the show Smallville. Because at least there there was some sort of semi-logical explanation for why he was there. His father sent him there to force him to learn to manage his business. Johns origin makes even less sense because his time in Smallville played no role in him becoming a villain.
    Assassinate Putin!

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    4,392

    Default

    I'm fine with bigotry as a motive since villains don't have to be "great". If he was "great", he wouldn't be a villain in the first place.

  8. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    The only good version of Luthor in Smallville is the show Smallville. Because at least there there was some sort of semi-logical explanation for why he was there. His father sent him there to force him to learn to manage his business. Johns origin makes even less sense because his time in Smallville played no role in him becoming a villain.
    Even though I loved the Clark-Lex dynamic in Smallville, didn’t the ending also kinda also highlight how pointless it is? Lex (really just a clone of the still dead real Lex) loses his memory of Smallville and Clark. I didn’t read smallville season 11, but I get the sense that his feud with his old buddy Clark Kent doesn’t end up actually informing his feud with Superman, besides maybe some subconscious dejah-vu.
    Last edited by OpaqueGiraffe17; 08-07-2020 at 07:33 PM.

  9. #24
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Metropolis USA
    Posts
    7,186

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OpaqueGiraffe17 View Post
    Even though I loved the Clark-Lex dynamic in Smallville, didn’t the ending also kinda also highlight how pointless it is? Lex (really just a clone of the still dead real Lex) loses his memory of Smallville and Clark. I didn’t read small bills season 11, but I get the sense that his feud with his old buddy Clark Kent doesn’t end up actually informing his feud with Superman, besides maybe some subconscious dejah-vu.
    The ending was a cop out because the show kind of went off the rails towards the end. He basically knew about Clark's powers and they needed some excuse for why he doesn't know Clark is Superman. I'm sure that wasn't the intention when the show started but they kind of boxed themselves into a corner.
    Assassinate Putin!

  10. #25
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    5,816

    Default

    Luthor’s got a similar “which interpretation is best” argument going on to the rest of Superman’s mythos... though I’d argue that he’s been proven flexible enough and had enough high quality turns in those versions that there’s a more consistent push to merge those interpretations of him than to reject them.

    Mad Scientist Lex provides the best challenge and can be the most impressive as a villain... but Billionaire Lex can lurk in the background as a grand threat that’s a major part of the supporting cast as a villain. Totally cold and remorseless sociopath Lex provides the best contrast to Superman’s more “spiritual“ traits... while the more “twisted could-have-been-a-hero” version often has more admirable “evil virtues” that help him work as a villain. Metropolis born and bred Lex has an excellent coldness and makes a good contrast to farm boy Clark... but Smallville Lex emphasizes his personal agency in falling into villainy contrasted with Clark.

    Part of the reason that Black Ring story works very well is because it tries, and largely succeeds, in merging as much of Lex’s variations into one character as it can: he’s a billionaire super scientist whole clearly narcisstic and apathetic towards others, but has a charisma and the echoes of empathy that makes his “sociopathy” feel more like a personal philosophy he has for probably tragic reasons that still in no way justify them... and he bears a grudge against Superman for the familiar selfish and delusional reasons, but then goes ballistic when he realizes Superman and Clark are the same person and his jealousy of the Kent’s comes to bear.

    Lex is a very flexible character.

    ...I would agree the movies have by and large been a crapshoot for quite some time. For some reason, TV seems to handle him much better on a tenth of the budget with guys like John Shea and Michael Rosenbaum than movies do with even legends like Hackman.
    Like action, adventure, rogues, and outlaws? Like anti-heroes, femme fatales, mysteries and thrillers?

    I wrote a book with them. Outlaw’s Shadow: A Sherwood Noir. Robin Hood’s evil counterpart, Guy of Gisbourne, is the main character. Feel free to give it a look: https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asi...E2PKBNJFH76GQP

  11. #26
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    4,112

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    ...I would agree the movies have by and large been a crapshoot for quite some time. For some reason, TV seems to handle him much better on a tenth of the budget with guys like John Shea and Michael Rosenbaum than movies do with even legends like Hackman.
    Cryer's Luthor is a revelation.


  12. #27
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    33,944

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by llozymandias View Post
    Bigotry does not work. Because bigotry is a sign of a small mind.
    You can be smart in multiple areas and still be a bigot. Bigotry can be found anywhere.



    The only way someone like Lex might be actually poor, would be if they didn't want to be rich. If Lex were real & applied any of his genius to aquisition of wealth, very shortly he would make Mansa Musa look like he was dirt poor.
    There are people who are great inventors that die no richer than when they were born.

  13. #28
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Metropolis USA
    Posts
    7,186

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Cryer's Luthor is a revelation.

    I think that Cryer's Luthor is the best but even with him, his motivations aren't entirely clear. And I think this is Luthor's biggest weakness. His motives are always questionable.
    Assassinate Putin!

  14. #29
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    33,944

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    A completely evil Luthor isn't very compelling to me. There needs to be some vestiges of humanity left in him underneath the raging ego and and the ruthless sociopath. Otherwise, he's just Earthbound Darkseid.

    I think the corporate titan works very well for the character, but I also love him as the world's most wanted man.

    He must also be indisputably the smartest man on the planet, and one of the smartest in the whole universe.
    I don't mind Luthor being a complete monster but if you're going to write him that way, you can't have Superman acting like there is any good in the man. Especially when everyone but Clark can see him for the bastard he is.

  15. #30
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    33,944

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    The fact that DC can't seem to pick a reason why Luthor hates Superman so much and stick with it indicates he's not a very good villain. Or at least not worthy of "arch nemesis" status. It just seems like DC needs him to be Superman's main villain but no one can really decide why. He's just "evil smart guy". They need that brains vs. brawn dynamic but even with that, Luthor isn't even the best choice, Brainiac is. He also has a direct connection to Krypton in a way Luthor doesn't. In a lot of ways, Luthor is like J. Jonah Jameson for Spiderman. They can't decide why he hates Spiderman so much other than it just makes good ad copy. The alien bigotry thing makes the most sense in that it at least is a motivation of some kind. And even then you don't need a connection to Smallville or Clark or anything else. Even the movies can't seem to figure out why Luthor hates him so much. Neither the Donner movies nor the Snyder ones seemed to go into much in the way of motivation.
    Donner's Luthor hates him for being a threat to his criminal enterprises. Snyder's hated him because he saw him as a threat.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •