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  1. #46
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    not sure it's controversial, but Lex and Clark knowing each other since children is super cheesy, and it makes the world smaller.

    I much rather Lex learns of him when Superman arrives to Metropolis and hates him because Supes gets in his way and people love and admire Supes a lot more than Lex.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    not sure it's controversial, but Lex and Clark knowing each other since children is super cheesy, and it makes the world smaller.

    I much rather Lex learns of him when Superman arrives to Metropolis and hates him because Supes gets in his way and people love and admire Supes a lot more than Lex.
    It can be done well, but yeah; it's a super cheap way to create a relationship between them.

  3. #48
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    I think that Birthrigth was the only time where i kind of liked the idea of then meting at Smallville.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
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  4. #49
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    There is a common Luthor trope, which has been used by basically ALL the writers in the past decades, Morrison included.
    For some reason, there ALWAYS must be a scene in which Luthor gets fooled by someone (generally Superman, but it happens with other characters too) and throws a temper tantrum by doing something stupid (he destroys a piece of furniture, yells or something like that).
    I HATE this concept. I really can't understand why it became so common. In all-Star it works better because of the specific atmosphere created by Morrison, but in general, for some reason, many writers depict Luthor as a frustrated, spoiled brat rather than an evil mastermind. I like that in the Young Justice TV series Luthor is a smooth talker who always seems to be in control of everything. My ideal Luthor would be more similar to Hannibal Lecter than a Trump-like man-child suffering from a bad case of hemorroids.
    Educational town, Rolemodel city and Moralofthestory land are the places where good comics go to die.

    DC writers and editors looked up and shouted "Save us!"
    And Alan Moore looked down and whispered "No."

    I'm kinda surprised Snyder didn't want Superman to watch Lois and Bruce conceive their love child. All the while singing the "Na na na na na na Batman!" theme song - Robotman, 03/06/2021

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myskin View Post
    There is a common Luthor trope, which has been used by basically ALL the writers in the past decades, Morrison included.
    For some reason, there ALWAYS must be a scene in which Luthor gets fooled by someone (generally Superman, but it happens with other characters too) and throws a temper tantrum by doing something stupid (he destroys a piece of furniture, yells or something like that).
    I HATE this concept. I really can't understand why it became so common. In all-Star it works better because of the specific atmosphere created by Morrison, but in general, for some reason, many writers depict Luthor as a frustrated, spoiled brat rather than an evil mastermind. I like that in the Young Justice TV series Luthor is a smooth talker who always seems to be in control of everything. My ideal Luthor would be more similar to Hannibal Lecter than a Trump-like man-child suffering from a bad case of hemorroids.
    Being an evil mastermind and a frustrated, spoiled brat when things turn on you aren't mutually exclusive. That's just Luthor having a fatal flaw. That said, I like YJ's Luthor as well. And he has a bit more in common with Trump than you might think.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myskin View Post
    There is a common Luthor trope, which has been used by basically ALL the writers in the past decades, Morrison included.
    For some reason, there ALWAYS must be a scene in which Luthor gets fooled by someone (generally Superman, but it happens with other characters too) and throws a temper tantrum by doing something stupid (he destroys a piece of furniture, yells or something like that).
    I HATE this concept. I really can't understand why it became so common. In all-Star it works better because of the specific atmosphere created by Morrison, but in general, for some reason, many writers depict Luthor as a frustrated, spoiled brat rather than an evil mastermind. I like that in the Young Justice TV series Luthor is a smooth talker who always seems to be in control of everything. My ideal Luthor would be more similar to Hannibal Lecter than a Trump-like man-child suffering from a bad case of hemorroids.

    Lex's most common failing is his ego. He really thinks he is the smartest guy in the room and that is why he falls apart as soon as anything punctures that belief. He's the kid who goes through school getting perfect grades then has a nervous breakdown the first time he gets an "A minus" or a "99 out of 100". His whole self worth is wrapped up in the fact he can outthink you but you can never outthink him.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Clark View Post
    Lex's most common failing is his ego. He really thinks he is the smartest guy in the room and that is why he falls apart as soon as anything punctures that belief. He's the kid who goes through school getting perfect grades then has a nervous breakdown the first time he gets an "A minus" or a "99 out of 100". His whole self worth is wrapped up in the fact he can outthink you but you can never outthink him.
    No offense meant, but it's not that the reason they do that isn't 100% clear. They are not exactly subtle moments.
    It's just extremely hard to consider him a mastermind when they include moments of childish behaviour so often.
    Educational town, Rolemodel city and Moralofthestory land are the places where good comics go to die.

    DC writers and editors looked up and shouted "Save us!"
    And Alan Moore looked down and whispered "No."

    I'm kinda surprised Snyder didn't want Superman to watch Lois and Bruce conceive their love child. All the while singing the "Na na na na na na Batman!" theme song - Robotman, 03/06/2021

  8. #53
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    In the Golden Age, in his first appearance, Luthor seemed to be an Eastern European war profiteer more than anything else. I kind of like that idea for him. I don't like it for every take on Luthor, but I find it interesting.
    "You know the deal, Metropolis. Treat people right or expect a visit from me."

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    In the Golden Age, in his first appearance, Luthor seemed to be an Eastern European war profiteer more than anything else. I kind of like that idea for him. I don't like it for every take on Luthor, but I find it interesting.
    I honestly wish that they kept it rather than re-imagining him twice.

  10. #55
    Ultimate Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    not sure it's controversial, but Lex and Clark knowing each other since children is super cheesy, and it makes the world smaller.

    I much rather Lex learns of him when Superman arrives to Metropolis and hates him because Supes gets in his way and people love and admire Supes a lot more than Lex.
    I always thought it came off rather fanfic-ish, even the Birthright explanation I found a bit too much of a stretch he'd never put two and two together together and figure out Clark = Superman.

  11. #56
    Fantastic Member llozymandias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    In the Golden Age, in his first appearance, Luthor seemed to be an Eastern European war profiteer more than anything else. I kind of like that idea for him. I don't like it for every take on Luthor, but I find it interesting.



    Actually his scheme was about conquest not war profiteering. His plan was ti foment a continent wide war Then, when all the countries were exhausted & super war weary, he intended to swoop in & take over.
    John Martin, citizen & rightful ruler of the omniverse.

  12. #57
    Fantastic Member llozymandias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    not sure it's controversial, but Lex and Clark knowing each other since children is super cheesy, and it makes the world smaller.

    I much rather Lex learns of him when Superman arrives to Metropolis and hates him because Supes gets in his way and people love and admire Supes a lot more than Lex.


    Clark was one of Lex's acquintances, not one of his friends.
    John Martin, citizen & rightful ruler of the omniverse.

  13. #58
    Astonishing Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    Luthor is overused, he should be benched for a while, to give chance of other villains developt.

    I believe that the constant use of Lex and the necessity the writers have to keep him as a threat, is one of the things that holds Superman back.

  14. #59
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by llozymandias View Post
    Actually his scheme was about conquest not war profiteering. His plan was ti foment a continent wide war Then, when all the countries were exhausted & super war weary, he intended to swoop in & take over.
    You're absolutely right. He may or may not have engineered the war between Toran and Galonia (there's a whole issue on the war before Luthor shows up), but there's certainly reason to believe he might be - given that the Galonian General Lupo was working for Luthor all along, and went forth with an effort to both prolong and expand the conflict on Luthor's orders.

    Quote Originally Posted by Action Comics # 23
    GEN. LUPO:Momentarily a squadron of unidentified planes are to invade and bombard a nearby neutral country. Luthor's plan is to engulf the entire continent in bloody warfare.
    Quote Originally Posted by Action Comics # 23
    SUPERMAN::What sort of creature are you?

    LUTHOR: Just an ordinary man-- but with th' brain of a super-genius! With scientific miracles at my fingertips, I'm preparing to make myself supreme master of th' world!

    LUTHOR:
    My plan? To send the nations of the Earth at each other's throats, so that when they are sufficiently weakened, I can step in and assume charge!

    SUPERMAN: The only thing you should step into is a straight-jacket!
    I think that at some point I decided that "taking over after other nations are weakened" qualified as "war profiteering," and started using the term out of habit, but now that I see it written out that way while reading the story, I think that's an overly understated term for Luthor's plot.



    Also, I noticed that on one page, Luthor has a bird ornament on the back of his chair which appears to be a vulture sitting on top of a circle. It's reminiscent of a certain Nazi symbol of an eagle on top of a swastika-in-a-circle, but is only seen in silhouette. It wasn't the most obvious connection to me as a fan after nearly 80 years of stories featuring Superman's nemesis, but a connection between Luthor in his first story, hoping to take over the world with a continental war in Europe, and Hitler, hoping to take over the world with a continental war in Europe, seems pretty likely in the minds of readers at the time - and in Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster's minds as well. Just an interesting thought.
    "You know the deal, Metropolis. Treat people right or expect a visit from me."

  15. #60
    Fantastic Member llozymandias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    You're absolutely right. He may or may not have engineered the war between Toran and Galonia (there's a whole issue on the war before Luthor shows up), but there's certainly reason to believe he might be - given that the Galonian General Lupo was working for Luthor all along, and went forth with an effort to both prolong and expand the conflict on Luthor's orders.





    I think that at some point I decided that "taking over after other nations are weakened" qualified as "war profiteering," and started using the term out of habit, but now that I see it written out that way while reading the story, I think that's an overly understated term for Luthor's plot.



    Also, I noticed that on one page, Luthor has a bird ornament on the back of his chair which appears to be a vulture sitting on top of a circle. It's reminiscent of a certain Nazi symbol of an eagle on top of a swastika-in-a-circle, but is only seen in silhouette. It wasn't the most obvious connection to me as a fan after nearly 80 years of stories featuring Superman's nemesis, but a connection between Luthor in his first story, hoping to take over the world with a continental war in Europe, and Hitler, hoping to take over the world with a continental war in Europe, seems pretty likely in the minds of readers at the time - and in Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster's minds as well. Just an interesting thought.




    One thing that strikes me about the stories from 38-40 (or so) is that they don't match the years they were published in. The first Luthor story doesn't make sense if it actually takes place in 1940. After all in 1940 europe was already at war. It occurs to me that Jerry Siegel might have already written those stories years earlier. In the period between 1934 & 1938 when they were shopping the character around.
    John Martin, citizen & rightful ruler of the omniverse.

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