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  1. #1
    Safari Grandma Sophicles's Avatar
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    Default Black Widow vs Black Canary

    Hand-to-hand combat only.

    No weapons/gadgets, or powers allowed.

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member
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    I'll give Dinah the edge here, her martial arts skills are among the best in the DCU.


  3. #3
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    I would give it to Black Widow. Her martial arts and boxing skills are among the best in the MU.

  4. #4
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Sadly, I know very little about current Canary, though I'm pretty sure that Pre-Nu52 Canary would take this after a hard fight.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  5. #5
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Black Widow also has much greater strength than BC.

  6. #6
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    What kind of feats does she have going for her to show much greater strength? And how's her durability?
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  7. #7
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    I'd say Canary probably has the slight edge here. Widow is generally shown as a step below CBPH in skill, speed and strength. She's close, but closer to Hawkeye/Ronin/Bucky level than Captain America level. Dinah seems a slight cut above. I don't think it's a stomp, just 6-4 or 7-3 for Canary.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta

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  8. #8
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    I'd say Canary probably has the slight edge here. Widow is generally shown as a step below CBPH in skill, speed and strength. She's close, but closer to Hawkeye/Ronin/Bucky level than Captain America level. Dinah seems a slight cut above. I don't think it's a stomp, just 6-4 or 7-3 for Canary.
    I'm in that range.

    Again, not talking about current Canary, don't know enough about her.

    But for PreNu52, I'm edging toward a decent majority for Canary barring some stellar feats for the Widow. Canary has some really, really good speedfeats (and precision feats), casually beats up street-level martial artists with stat-enhancing exosuits (like, laughable ease), utterly humiliates Ollie after he explicitly is shown to get better after a year of training, impresses Shiva with her skill (impresses, not 'makes Shiva want to kill her'), etc.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  9. #9
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    What kind of feats does she have going for her to show much greater strength? And how's her durability?
    Not sure of feats but her Russian Variant of the Super Soldier Serum does grant enhanced strength, speed, endurance and durability---but not as great as Cap. However, one of the last Handbooks produced did state that she could lift/benchpress 500 pounds.

  10. #10
    The Tentacle God Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
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    Handbooks don't mean much hereabouts.

    Feats do.
    Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness. - Pendaran

    Arxiros "Arx" Inosaan | Inanna

  11. #11
    Incredible Member Cruelrain's Avatar
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    Could go either way
    Natasha stalemated Elektra once

  12. #12
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh View Post
    Handbooks don't mean much hereabouts.

    Feats do.
    Oh okay. Fair enough. Being more of a spy, not sure about any BW feats.

  13. #13
    All-New Member Marveld2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruelrain View Post
    Could go either way
    Natasha stalemated Elektra once
    Agree 100%

  14. #14
    The Tentacle God Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Oh okay. Fair enough. Being more of a spy, not sure about any BW feats.
    While the handbooks are canon in a way, they're... pretty inaccurate. Though there are gems like the Punch Dimension; and an old handbook listing one of Hulk's powers as 'stupid'. Since he lacked higher brainpower at the time, which allowed him to see ghosts and stuff.

    So we tend to defer to high end consistent feats. Just smooths things over... does make it hard to debate things sometimes though.
    Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness. - Pendaran

    Arxiros "Arx" Inosaan | Inanna

  15. #15
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Yeah, it really comes down to feats.

    I'm rather iffy on Widow stalemating Elektra, given Elektra's flat-out ridiculous, consistent feats. She's a high-end bullet-timer considered to be one of the most skilled fighters in the world who punches out people's hearts when she's in a bad mood.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

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