Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 25
  1. #1
    Extraordinary Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    5,261

    Default Why do people think snyder was making superman into evil version like injustice?


    Here, when asked specifically about "evil Superman".he says he likes the arc of reconciliation, journey.. Etc. He says that "it's not 100% true that he loves evil Superman" . Look at the way he says it. That doesn't seem like a guy who seems overjoyed to make an evil Superman story.

  2. #2
    Spectacular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    156

    Default

    1: Jonathan Kent's advice is not the best. 2: superman working with the army brings back bad memories. 3: he only has lois and martha, he is very disconnected from the world 4: self-doubt, superman doubt 5: BvS, a superman if I dialogue without scenes, a future superman being the villain.

  3. #3
    Last Son of Shaolin GreatKungLao's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Russia
    Posts
    1,288

    Default

    Because he doesn't wear red trunks.

    Because he was allowed to feel other human emotions besides constant happiness and smiles.

    Because his parents told him he can choose not to be a hero if that's what he wants, that he has a choice, that his powers aren't an obligation to do anything, but he still can if that's also what he wishes for.

    Because Jonathan told him in BvS that every action, no matter how good your intentions were, can lead to negative consequences, that the world is not that simple.

    I highly recommend to watch this at 41:46 and listen to what he has to say about Superman. Definitely sounds like he was leading towards evil Superman, duh:


  4. #4
    Extraordinary Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    5,261

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NaVi View Post
    1: Jonathan Kent's advice is not the best. 2: superman working with the army brings back bad memories. 3: he only has lois and martha, he is very disconnected from the world 4: self-doubt, superman doubt 5: BvS, a superman if I dialogue without scenes, a future superman being the villain.
    Be that as may. you need to make a pretty big leap to make a guy with doubts, introverted personality and who has parents with "bad" advices into a dictator overlord. As if those don't exist in real life. As if those guys/gals/others all are secretly evil.As for the army, he worked with the army and not for them. He smashed their satellites, broke the handcuffs and told it to their face straight up that they can't control him and will never control him.
    I don't believe, that pa's advice to the alien kid who is like god to hide himself, was bad. But, that's a whole another different deal. I am not going to get into that.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 08-09-2020 at 08:13 AM.

  5. #5

    Default

    Superman is already shown that he might become a villain in BvS with that whole stupid "knightmare sequence" vision/dream thing. So would Zack Snyder not show him come back to life as a full villain so he can beat up the rest of League and then they might some way to stop and/or redeem him? Plus Henry Cavil doesn't suck as much as an actor when he's playing a villain than a hero, he might have made a great General Zod and Micheal Shannon maybe would have been a better Superman.
    Last edited by Cyberstrike; 08-09-2020 at 08:27 AM.

  6. #6
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    23,801

    Default

    People see what they want to see. Frankly, these conversations about Snyder's Superman just show how ridiculous fans are at times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberstrike View Post
    Superman is already shown that he might become a villain in BvS with that whole stupid "knightmare sequence" vision/dream thing. So would Zack Snyder not show him come back to life as a full villain so he can beat up the rest of League and then they might some way to stop and/or redeem him? Plus Henry Cavil doesn't suck as much as an actor when he's playing a villain than a hero, he might have made a great General Zod and Micheal Shannon maybe would have been a better Superman.
    Case in point.

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    3,514

    Default

    There was the Knightmare sequence in BvS. The imagery of millitary and loss of Lois is very reminiscent to Injustice.

    I don't think he was going to make a permanently evil Superman. Remember DC wanted Justice League to rival Avengers.

    We saw a bit of it played out in Justice League. So there was some plan. How long he was going to be? We can speculate at best. Maybe it was for one scene as in the final movie. Maybe it was for Justice League Part 1 when there were two parts.
    Last edited by Soubhagya; 08-09-2020 at 08:52 AM.

  8. #8
    Extraordinary Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    5,261

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberstrike View Post
    Micheal Shannon maybe would have been a better Superman.
    Michael Shannon superman would have been something to look forward too. Heck! He would be an awesome lor zod.

    As for everything else i don't particularly have an opinion. It's not like we need some oscar worthy performance to be superman . Not that i would mind someone absolutely unbelievable playing superman.
    Quote Originally Posted by Soubhagya View Post
    There was the Knightmare sequence in BvS. The imagery of millitary and loss of Lois is very reminiscent to Injustice.
    Didn't avengers age of ultron have many dream sequence with darkforshadowing including everyone dieing because of thanos? Did it actually happen? No,it didn't. The only person that died was ironman. So, a dark foreshadowing =/= what will absolutely happen. We had two dreams sequences in both ww and mos. Clark was swimming in skulls remember.did this happen for real?
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 08-09-2020 at 09:02 AM.

  9. #9
    Spectacular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    156

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Be that as may. you need to make a pretty big leap to make a guy with doubts, introverted personality and who has parents with "bad" advices into a dictator overlord. As if those don't exist in real life. As if those guys/gals/others all are secretly evil.As for the army, he worked with the army and not for them. He smashed their satellites, broke the handcuffs and told it to their face straight up that they can't control him and will never control him.
    I don't believe, that pa's advice to the alien kid who is like god to hide himself, was bad. But, that's a whole another different deal. I am not going to get into that.
    there is a future where superman is evil. also if you give DC to choose between an orgy with the Victoria's Secret angels or an evil superman who receives a beating from batman, just by listening to evil superman they have forgotten about the orgy.

  10. #10
    Extraordinary Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    5,261

    Default

    This is another dream sequence/temptation in wonderwoman.

    As you know wonderwoman said no the same as kal.
    Quote Originally Posted by NaVi View Post
    there is a future where superman is evil. also if you give DC to choose between an orgy with the Victoria's Secret angels or an evil superman who receives a beating from batman, just by listening to evil superman they have forgotten about the orgy.
    Lol! This reasoning i can atleast get behind. But, a dark possible future does not mean The future is locked in. As you can see we have had multiple temptation sequences in these movies.Bvs temptation scene was of batman's.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 08-09-2020 at 09:06 AM.

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    3,514

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Michael Shannon superman would have been something to look forward too. Heck! He would be an awesome lor zod.

    As for everything else i don't particularly have an opinion. It's not like we need some oscar worthy performance to be superman . Not that i would mind someone absolutely unbelievable playing superman.


    Didn't avengers age of ultron have many dream sequence with darkforshadowing including everyone dieing because of thanos? Did it actually happen? No,it didn't. The only person that died was ironman. So, a dark foreshadowing =/= what will absolutely happen. We had two dreams sequences in both ww and mos. Clark was swimming in skulls remember.did this happen for real?
    If there was no fight between resurrected Superman and Justice League i would have agreed with you completely.

    Zack Snyder has tastes towards darker/edgier takes. Its easy to make connections while speculating. Wasn't he the guy who said his Bruce Wayne could have been raped in prison, when speaking about the public perception of darker/serious take of Nolan's Batman?

    I am not sure what he would have done. But seeing an evil Superman if only for a while seemed a good possibility during the run up to the release. Injustice is quite popular after all.

    This skull scene is nice but kinda dumb. Why did Zod show this to Clark? Kal grew up here and there was a potential that je may theaten their plan. In Age of Ultron it was a false vision planted in Tony's mind which drove his actions in the film. That's a good use of this vision as it drives the plot. But Knightmare sequence as cool looking it maybe (i enjoy that scene quite a lot) makes no sense within the movie. Batman was already fearing/hating Superman.

    All are speculations. I wouldn't mind being completely wrong when Snyder cut comes out.

  12. #12
    Spectacular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    156

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    This is another dream sequence/temptation in wonderwoman.

    As you know wonderwoman said no the same as kal.


    Lol! This reasoning i can atleast get behind. But, a dark possible future does not mean The future is locked in. As you can see we have had multiple temptation sequences in these movies.Bvs temptation scene was of batman's.
    batman's nightmare is a real future, which the league must avoid, that means superman gave up. In addition there are the news (I do not know if real or not) in which they said that Lois dies and Superman surrenders to the equation. It is obvious that Superman would not become a permanent villain, but it is clear that he could be for a while.

  13. #13
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    10,453

    Default

    It wouldn't have been completely like Injustice. I don't think all those who make the comparison say that meaning it's 100% similar, because obviously it wouldn't play out the same based on what we know. But since Injustice is already big and movies are even bigger, yet another portrayal where Superman is an obstacle for other heroes (albeit maybe a temporary mind controlled one here) would be pretty tiresome.

    I don't think it would be Snyder's intention to portray an evil Superman, but intentions and execution and what the audience takes away from it are often different things.

  14. #14
    Extraordinary Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    5,261

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Soubhagya View Post
    If there was no fight between resurrected Superman and Justice League i would have agreed with you completely.

    Zack Snyder has tastes towards darker/edgier takes. Its easy to make connections while speculating. Wasn't he the guy who said his Bruce Wayne could have been raped in prison, when speaking about the public perception of darker/serious take of Nolan's Batman?

    I am not sure what he would have done. But seeing an evil Superman if only for a while seemed a good possibility during the run up to the release. Injustice is quite popular after all.

    This skull scene is nice but kinda dumb. Why did Zod show this to Clark? Kal grew up here and there was a potential that je may theaten their plan. In Age of Ultron it was a false vision planted in Tony's mind which drove his actions in the film. That's a good use of this vision as it drives the plot. But Knightmare sequence as cool looking it maybe (i enjoy that scene quite a lot) makes no sense within the movie. Batman was already fearing/hating Superman.

    All are speculations. I wouldn't mind being completely wrong when Snyder cut comes out.
    Well, there was a fight in justice league theatrical cut as well. Does it mean superman was evil in justice league theatrical cut? No, the guy was confused. Ofcourse, with Snyder's philosophy.A guy like superman being confused might have more grave consequences. But, at the end of the day clark isn't self conscious. So how can we call him good or evil? Morality requires conscious choice. To be good or bad we need to have the choice. Judging by your username, you would know the concept "karma". Right? This was also why captain america fought for bucky in civil war as well.

    Honestly, snyder has'nt done anything edgy with these properties. They are just wayyyy tooo serious. Have you read berserk manga? Now, that's what i call dark and edgy. Btw, it's seinen and for adults.it can get pretty messed up.

    But, be that as may. Snyder may like darker stuff. Does that mean protagonist in the story will be evil? Batman is supposed to be considered "dark". (i don't) right? Does that batman is evil? No, it doesn't. By the your logic /preconceived notion, batman should be evil.

    As for why zod showed it to clark. They were having telepathic links. As far as i know, that might be why. Zod might not have been able to hide anything. On top of that, i don't believe zod viewed clark as a threat. You know pride kills kind of deal. It was truly miracle clark got an upperhand on zod, send the other kryptonIans through the black hole and saved the planets. Zod wasn't much for diplomacy to begin with. That was basically zod giving an ultimatum. Join us or join them. It's a more subtle version of "kneel before zod".As for tony's vision being false, we had no idea it was false vision till much later. Tony went to civil war with cap because of that vision. The knightmare sequence can be used to expand on Bruce's mental state and paranoia.
    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I don't think it would be Snyder's intention to portray an evil Superman, but intentions and execution and what the audience takes away from it are often different things.
    This i can understand. But, we cannot just divorce the authorial intent you know. It would be like putting words in someone mouth or twisting someones words. At the end of the day we are consuming someone point of you. We can agree, disagree or be ambivalent about it. But, we need to actually be able to address the point of view the guy intended, honestly before taking out pitchforks. Even if we disagree with the guys point of view. At the end of the day it's just an opinion. Unless ofcourse his opinion is truly something bigoted or twisted.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 08-09-2020 at 10:06 AM.

  15. #15
    Mighty Member Ra-El's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    1,316

    Default

    I don't think he would make Superman evil, just mentally weak enough to Darkseid control him, but that is the normal for Superman, he is the easiest to manipulate on the whole DCU.

    My only question is, he would at least win the fight? Because turning Superman evil just so someone else can have a good showing is getting old.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •